Spent last year working on a side project and assumed I would need this and that in order to launch. But after it was ready to launch, I found out there was no product market fit. I have known about the importance of quickly finding out pmf but still made the mistakes. knowing != doing. We just love building stuff and mistakenly convince ourselves that if I add one more feature, this thing would be ready for launch and take off. But in reality...
It’s a good lesson. We found PMF with a shared google sheet and a bit of data processing behind the scenes. The level of polish I’d come to expect as an engineer at an enterprise company was astronomically higher than what was actually needed for our customers to give us their dollars.
>In my experience reducing features is better to begin with.
This is right approach. Lean. If you don’t have PMF, reduce your features until you find it. Pivot. Maybe pivot again. Eventually you’ll find a market to serve. Just don’t fall into the sunken cost fallacy. Time box your market exploration.
As a freelance back-end developer with various co-founding experience this question speaks to me. I think it's all a matter of perspective.
Looking at it from a development perspective the two can mean the same thing: we pivot and so we need to add new features.
However, in my experience the key is to look at pivoting from a non-development perspective. As mentioned in parent comments you pivot to find a product market fit. That entails finding your audience and the problem you're solving for them. Those questions do not require a product, but a human understanding. Questions like 'is it actually a problem they need solving, or a slight convenience?' and 'how are they solving their problem without my product?'.
By pivoting quickly in that space you don't get bogged down by technical issues or challenges that don't even matter, and the real solution might be a week's worth of time.
How do you guys get funding to build things for such a long time? Rent, food and health insurance in my area costs $50k per year. If feels I have no choice but to earn a salary.
Dropping a quarter of a mil on an app that might not pan out seems out of the question.
Nobody starts by dropping quarter of a mil, you start by dropping $1k and being very frugal, releasing something minimal, seeing how it behaves, and once you have some actual data to work with, you pivot again and again and again.
It's always a huge money sinkohole until it isn't.
It may be possible for you later in life. Most bootstrappers have worked up some wealth via traditional methods like savings, home equity, inheritance, and freelance/consulting work.
VC money and accelerators are primarily for people who dont have the wealth to bootstrap, but who are young and willing to take investors on early.
Technically they didn't put a price tag on the app, the $1 was github sponsor money, so the project was never really designed to make money.
The app itself (Midi editor with piano roll UI) looks great but is instantly made much less relevant if you just install Reaper (and actual DAW, free to try, available at the time all this was developed).
Cool thing, but the moral of the story is: release that toy thing you spent a few weeks on, it's as ready as it ever will be and maybe it'll grow with it's user base.
I remember the moment when in my last startup, the first invoice was paid - $5. A magic moment. I still remember the name of the customer. The last invoice before exit was $50.000. I remember that customer too.
Interesting, did you pivot / change the target market? $5 sounds more like a consumer product but $50k likely isn't (unless you literally progressed from skateboards to cars like every Agile cartoon wants to make us believe)...
Among other things, I'm working on an elephant hunter type product. Took us five months, but the first invoices were $7k, $3k and now $45k but that doesn't prove much yet.
Ah Riot.js, it was like Vue before Vue, yet it never took off for some reason, and it had component templates with locally scoped JS and CSS. I remember mentioning it to a few fellow devs when they were hyping up Vue and nobody ever even heard about it.
I remember this uncanny feeling when I started reading about a new thing in JS frameworks called "file based routing", coming from PHP it was, wait, didn't we just come from this to proper routing, and now this is a feature again.
I used to think my goal was to do this and that and change the world etc... I am starting to think that I just like building things and maybe thats OK.
i've been making websites since 2000. i've seen the internet change and made couple of projects during my life, none took off. as time went, i realized this golden era of online businesses is long gone and everything has been monopolized and bought out by the big tech companies and that money for ads is what matters the most these days. right now i am finalizing my last project that i will ever make, for this reason. it will be 2.5 years of work in march, when i will be releasing it. the only reason i am going for it and i stuck with working on it full-time this whole time is because it is a type of business where customers will come on their own and will want to use it because it provides them with a new sales channel so competition is actually good for them. it flips the usual business model on its head. otherwise i would have quit a long time ago. my hopes up to get it going this year and make 1M in sales next year and hope to be able to focus on growing it for many years to come.
Light text on light background for max pain. Still I will read it though. Frankly, I commend anyone who is willing to work long-term on massive projects by themselves like this. I find it inspiring since all my projects are like this tbh.
Seems like frameworks were a major problem for the project. I get it. Sometimes if you're too early you end up having to build not only your project but a small ecosystem of things to support it.
Even non-technical founders make this error. Everyone wants to believe that "just one more feature" is the difference between make and break.
In my experience reducing features is better to begin with.
This is right approach. Lean. If you don’t have PMF, reduce your features until you find it. Pivot. Maybe pivot again. Eventually you’ll find a market to serve. Just don’t fall into the sunken cost fallacy. Time box your market exploration.
Looking at it from a development perspective the two can mean the same thing: we pivot and so we need to add new features.
However, in my experience the key is to look at pivoting from a non-development perspective. As mentioned in parent comments you pivot to find a product market fit. That entails finding your audience and the problem you're solving for them. Those questions do not require a product, but a human understanding. Questions like 'is it actually a problem they need solving, or a slight convenience?' and 'how are they solving their problem without my product?'.
By pivoting quickly in that space you don't get bogged down by technical issues or challenges that don't even matter, and the real solution might be a week's worth of time.
Dropping a quarter of a mil on an app that might not pan out seems out of the question.
It's always a huge money sinkohole until it isn't.
VC money and accelerators are primarily for people who dont have the wealth to bootstrap, but who are young and willing to take investors on early.
Personally, I've gotten a lot of mileage out of doing freelance work 2-3 days/week and working on my own projects in the remaining time.
> Nice to meet you. I'm an engineer who runs a small mobile app development company.
The app itself (Midi editor with piano roll UI) looks great but is instantly made much less relevant if you just install Reaper (and actual DAW, free to try, available at the time all this was developed).
Cool thing, but the moral of the story is: release that toy thing you spent a few weeks on, it's as ready as it ever will be and maybe it'll grow with it's user base.
Among other things, I'm working on an elephant hunter type product. Took us five months, but the first invoices were $7k, $3k and now $45k but that doesn't prove much yet.
Please don’t do this
Neither the application nor the ORM lived on. I now start from an existing ORM framework for any new project.
Good learning!
https://arionhardison.com
then Ai education: https://pub.education
then Ai healthcare: https://codify.healthcare
I used to think my goal was to do this and that and change the world etc... I am starting to think that I just like building things and maybe thats OK.
Estimated Cost to Develop (organic) $1,023,233
Estimated Schedule Effort (organic) 13.87 months
Estimated People Required (organic) 6.55
- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24599679
Seems like frameworks were a major problem for the project. I get it. Sometimes if you're too early you end up having to build not only your project but a small ecosystem of things to support it.
Here's the software they ended up making which looks frigging cool: https://signal.vercel.app/