PingCap TiDB Leaks

(fulcrumsec.vg)

413 points | by swyx 1 day ago

21 comments

  • llama052 17 hours ago
    https://www.pingcap.com/trust-hub/security/security-update-o...

    I find it really baffling how much they are downplaying this incident on their statement.

    ”An external incident response firm reviewed PingCAP’s production systems and found no evidence that the attacker ran commands or maintained persistent access in the systems reviewed”

    That does not appear to be true.

    • bombcar 16 hours ago
      Certainly there was no evidence; they likely have no logging anyway!
      • zergrush 16 hours ago
        since they pasted customer creds in jira tickets they most likely are very liable hence the downplaying

        im not an expert but if I was an investor I'd try to find a buyer for my shares and run

        • hobofan 6 hours ago
          Also time to audit the auditors!
    • alright2565 14 hours ago
      > in the systems reviewed

      is load bearing I expect.

      • albert_e 9 hours ago
        Also

        > production systems

        Wonder if they just reclassified all operational systems as pre-production, post-production, quasi-production etc.

  • dherls 1 day ago
    If true, this is next level incompetence from PingCap. Apparently the attackers set up a replication pipeline for a month?!

    > We even stood up a replication feed of their own control-plane database using credentials committed in their own repositories — GCP service-account keys and an Azure service principal — and let their infrastructure deliver it to us. Every six hours, for the last twenty-two days of the campaign, from 8 September to 30 September, that pipeline faithfully re-exported every table of the operational heart of TiDB Cloud — tenants, users, API keys, cluster credentials, changefeeds, migrations — and pushed it out.

    • autoexec 12 hours ago
      If we were living in a sane world this would end this company. They would lose every customer they have and be buried in lawsuits that bankrupt them into the ground. I hope for sanity, but I wouldn't be surprised if they stay operating even after all this.
    • alfiedotwtf 11 hours ago
      On the bright side, FulcrumSec could possibly moonlight as database consultants given they managed to setup a large fault-tolerant replication feed without falling over for a month
  • skinfaxi 4 hours ago
    There's only like 8 seeders on the torrents, come on people.
  • xKingfisher 1 day ago
    Coming this close on the heels of the security audit by NCC [1] is pretty embarassing for all parties.

    [1]https://www.pingcap.com/press-release/tidb-ncc-group-securit...

    • kobieps 1 day ago
      From personal experience having worked with multiple "enterprise-grade" pentest vendors (including NCC), I think the entire pentest industry is overdue for a big shake-up.
      • AndreasBackx 2 hours ago
        Where does one go for a trustworthy pentest or security review? Especially, where do smaller companies perhaps go that aren't at the multi-million level.
        • kobieps 1 hour ago
          I can recommend https://includesecurity.com/ , they're very reasonably priced and will probably catch any glaring issues you have, but they probably won't catch any subtle issues on their entry-level pricing.
      • angry_octet 5 hours ago
        Well it's going into the trash compactor along with all the other jobs that are highly vulnerable to automation with LLMs, but at the same time LLMs have spawned a panic buying spree of AI pentesting contracts. It's going to be a wild ride before the dust settles.
        • kobieps 1 hour ago
          yeah it's impossible to imagine the next year being anything other than a wild ride
      • jascha_eng 7 hours ago
        yeh running some automatic scripts against public urls to check if https is enabled and scanning if there are public s3 buckets is barely any better than a security linter.

        There are some teams that are better than this, but they are rare.

        • tgv 6 hours ago
          The press release speaks of "a rigorous source-code security assessment by NCC Group." That suggests more than a bit of url scanning. Somebody is lying, that much is certain.
    • hintymad 1 day ago
      > TiDB, the open-source distributed SQL database powered by PingCAP, today published the results of a rigorous source-code security assessment by NCC Group, one of the world’s leading cybersecurity consultancies.

      It looks like you can assess the hell out of your source code, but your system can still leak if you don't secure your operations.

      • somat 14 hours ago
        There was a quote from back in early web days that has stuck with me, Still relevant today.

        "good opsec will save you from bad crypto. but the converse is not true, good crypto will not save you from bad opsec"

    • jacquesm 17 hours ago
      No particular opinion on NCC but a lot of that stuff is pay-to-play.
      • mogwire 12 hours ago
        I don’t think people truly understand how bad it is.

        15 years ago I helped do a PCI/SOX compliance evaluation for a company looking to go public.

        They had PWC in there with kids fresh out of college, no computer experience, and they would sit at the desk with the admins and say, “show me your Active Directory password policy”. Ok, looks good. CHECK

        Why don’t you have this configured? I’d hear an alarming bullshit reason. Ok, we can exempt that. CHECK

        I could go on and on and on with how bad it was.

        And they bragged to potential investors. We are PCI/SOX complaint.

        • jacquesm 9 hours ago
          The big four are by far the worst.
      • xKingfisher 11 hours ago
        I would have considered "the system" to also include password reset policies.
        • jacquesm 9 hours ago
          This comes up regularly, even today.
    • DetroitThrow 3 hours ago
      I don't think NCC is 2026 is anything like the NCC of yore. Some of the most incompetent assurance and security researchers I've ever met have come out of there more recently.

      Hopefully this hack is a warning for anyone that might use NCC's services in the future.

  • gregwebs 1 hour ago
    I am reading this as a potential leak of almost every possible piece of metadata related to the operation and the business but a limited leak of customer data.

    This goes to show the benefit of maintaining separations between the control plane and the data plane.

    This site does say it has SQL logs which have some amount of customer data and there is a mention of some snapshots/imports- this looks like a case where the control plane and data plane end up getting entangled. Its possible the attacker could have reset customer database passwords to try to connect to them or could have exfiltrated customer data by initiating snapshots but just didn't want to deal with the increased risk of detection.

    TiDB is for large scale data. You generally wouldn't use it unless you have at least 1TB of data. A 10TB leak of information is less than the size of a single small customer database for them.

  • aliasxneo 16 hours ago
    > PingCAP's engineers paste customers' production credentials into Jira tickets.

    Holy hell, I've heard of this happening, but I've never personally seen it in my 10 years as an SRE. That's absolutely wild.

    • adamparsons 16 hours ago
      It sounds like their jira instance was truly the keys to the kingdom, given the creds _and_ tickets describing all the flaws needing fixing. A golden README.MD to escalate to their hearts content
  • arpinum 1 day ago
    AWS private rates gives PingCAP ~47% off list price. Wonder which services got the biggest discounts? Unsurprisingly for a db company the cross-az traffic is 15% of their bill.
    • driverdan 14 hours ago
      Sounds about right. The more you use the deeper the discount they'll give you.
    • perpetualpear 15 hours ago
      You can get some sweet deals on s3, assuming you store 10-100s of PB
    • robertclaus 12 hours ago
      Eh, the math implies <10% off their total bill. Unclear what LLM wrote this page up from their actual report, but it wasn't very good at math.
      • arpinum 8 hours ago
        Oh, maybe they combined savings plan discounts and private pricing?
    • gooseai 1 day ago
      [dead]
  • nemothekid 1 day ago
    Man I recently executed a migration from Aurora to Planetscale. I seriously considered PingCap but decided against it because I thought they cloud pricing was too complex. I wonder if my personal information is in the leak.
    • redwood 7 hours ago
      What makes you confident Planetscale opsec is elite, out of curiosity? I have a great respect for the team and would like it to be true. But is there evidence?
  • neya 16 hours ago
    Pingcap's statement:

        With support from outside counsel and third-party forensic specialists, there is no evidence that data stored in TiDB was impacted. We keep on investigating and will provide updates on any new findings.
    
    
    They have the fucking data in a tarball and Pingcap claims no data was impacted. This sounds like the bad blood story part 2 all over again.
    • swyx 10 hours ago
      well technically they didn't LOSE data, in fact, now they have free global replicas of the data!
      • gregw2 4 hours ago
        They replicated pingdb's control plane/metadata. Not the customer data. As I read it anyway.
      • throwaway2037 9 hours ago
        "technically": For once, somebody used it correctly!
    • alfiedotwtf 11 hours ago
      Counsel isn’t there to help them technically
  • kami23 13 hours ago
    Whoever is doing these infiltration are still out there and nothing is really changing with how these are responded to, these guys aren't going to be the only ones. The cat is out of the bag, you gave people the access to unlimited automation, and it turns out people know how to use it for both 'good' and 'bad' for your various definitions of the two.

    Defense as we see it today seems fundamentally broken. The answer is to fight it with more AI? That doesn't seem right. Can software reliably self evolve and keep patching itself? What certification is going to protect you from an intruder with their legion of minions, none of them, you don't have perfect visibility to your systems, your systems emit too many signals to ingest 100% of actions, so does software need to get fundamentally simpler?

    Today has me wondering how many datacenters exist out there just for organized crime? Are the big kingpins of the world going all in AI as well?

    Lots of questions popping into my head today, I'm trying to think how you would slow or stop this and I can't help but think we just need everyone to go outside and touch some grass and remember we're all stuck on the same rock.

    • RetroTechie 5 hours ago
      Imho the fundamental problem here is software & system complexity has grown to a scale where people (read: developers, system admins & the like) can't fully understand the tools they deploy. Or the implications of a failure somewhere.

      That's okay if components are small, have well-defined boundaries / dependencies, are easy to inspect, and all that is rigidly enforced.

      Obviously that's not where we are.

      On the bright side: in most cases that complexity is self-inflicted, unnecessary, and can be side-stepped if so desired. Problems we're seeing don't occur by necessity: they occur because we've complicated many jobs more than those jobs need to be complicated.

      Go back to first principles, cut bs wrappers around everything, and move on.

    • ozgrakkurt 8 hours ago
      It is exceptionally easy to make things secure if you are developing conservatively.

      Kind of like how permissions model of deno. If you make everything closed by default and selectively open it is very easy.

      Not putting credentials to everything in jira isn’t related to using of ai for hacking imo

  • wannabe44 1 day ago
    > Summary: "The root password of the cluster can be reset unconditionally"

    But what matters is that it was all memory safe and had no data races.

    • boorbat 1 day ago
      You realize it's written in Go right?
      • wannabe44 1 day ago
        Not even data race safe then. NGMI.
  • dangoodmanUT 1 day ago
    what is happening today

    and how are people not talking about this more

    • dilyevsky 1 day ago
      only the beginning. next year or two are going to be wild on this front so buckle up...
  • thenthenthen 17 hours ago
    Why is Baidu among their clients
    • gregw2 2 hours ago
      Large Chinese companies seem to have researched+adopted HTAP much more in the last five years than US companies from what I can tell staying abreast of HTAP developments.
    • autoexec 12 hours ago
      Because they give them money. That's all they care about.
  • TheCynosure 7 hours ago
    Can someone help me understand this part:

    > The billing engine that trusts unverified X-ACCOUNT-USER-ID headers. The account service where admin is a tenant ID and impersonation bypasses org checks with owner role.

    What is the issue with the billing engine trusting an “unverified” header here? Is the assumption that it’s not auth-ing the request? Is the billing engine internal? What does “unverified” even mean in this context.

    What’s the problem with Admin being a tenant ID? How would impersonation even cause bypassing an org check?

    • hobofan 6 hours ago
      That whole paragraph reads to be AI written.

      Depending on how the billing engine is deployed, and whether there are adequate controls that it's being deployed correctly, there is nothing wrong with accepting a header like this from an upstream service that produces it or verifies it in the correct manner. It only becomes an issue if the service is directly exposed to potential attackers that could use it for impersonation, e.g. a service directly exposed to the internet.

      • GreenWatermelon 5 hours ago
        The entire Page is AI written 100%, and it's very likely DeepSeek because the prose matches my experience. I've been working heavily with DeepSeek this past week on an Architecture issue, so I read A LOT. The most obvious tell-tale of deepseek I've is long, condensed paragraphs that should've been bullet-point lists.
  • esafak 1 day ago
    • autoexec 12 hours ago
      PingCap is not the victim here. This level of apathy and incompetence makes them an accomplice.
      • esafak 4 hours ago
        I agree with you. I am a bit surprised because they're a tech-forward company.
  • rvz 1 day ago
    First the Google Cloud outage [0], then the CA private key leak [1]...

    ...and now this...

    > Today we are making the PingCAP breach public. We possess the complete TiDB Cloud control plane, its billing and finance estate, its GCP storage estate and its AWS cost and billing estate, its Jira, its CRM, its analytics, its source code, and a four-year log of every connection every customer ever made to its product, from the IP addresses of their application servers.

    This is an entire leak of ALL PingCap TiDB's customers AND data.

    All of this in a single day. It is over.

    [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50163961

    [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50166579

    • gregwebs 1 day ago
      I am reading this as a leak of every possible piece of metadata but not an actual leak of customer data. They have SQL logs which do contain customer data and there is a mention of some snapshots/imports.
      • berenddeboer 20 hours ago
        they leaked full connection strings for customer databases with users and passwords.
      • hdjdnxjzhzhs 1 day ago
        How the fuck is 10.6TB metadata?
        • gregwebs 1 day ago
          TiDB is for large scale data. You generally wouldn't use it unless you have at least 1TB of data. 10TB is a single small customer database for them.
        • fock 1 day ago
          (POV when storing 1PB in Oracle) when I saw the 10 TB in another post, I was like "wait, isn't this sold to scale out, we have 100 times the data here".
        • binsquare 1 day ago
          Easily at scale

          Size is not a good indicator for content quality

    • qingcharles 1 day ago
      Don't forget the PHP megabomb dropping in a few hours too.
      • swyx 10 hours ago
        ... how did you know?
  • lossolo 46 minutes ago
    [flagged]
  • gooseai 1 day ago
    [dead]
  • jedisct1 1 day ago
    It's written in Rust, so it's safe.