Is it also post-trained to know when it's wrong about when it's wrong?
> "Every response comes with a confidence score between 0 and 1"
How confident is it in its confidence?
Please, I'm sure that what you're doing is very neat and useful, but use other language to describe it. I beg you. You can't know when you're wrong. You can only know when you're unsure or inconsistent. You can be absolutely certain and still wrong and uncertain and still correct.
A few years ago, before RLVR became ubiquitous, people were using generate -> classify loops to get models to improve math reasoning. Turns out classification is sometimes easier to do and more accurate than generating coherent traces. So you'd get a model to "think step by step", then run each step (.split('/n/n')) through a classifier, and tell the model "this step might be wrong, re-check". If you're interested I could probably dig up some papers on this.
Now there might be even better ways of getting feedback, I saw some interesting trials using "J-spaces" (from Anthropic's latest research in this area). Turns out you can kinda see when the model uses deep seeded concepts in early layers, or it's "riffing on an idea" with shallow signals in those same layers. And youc an get some signal out of it, and have it re-do a step.
It's also worth mentioning that LMs are wrong in different ways from humans. It's not impossible that we'll eventually find ways of better understanding this (through mechanistic interpretation or something else) and have easy "classifiers" for "this comes from the training data" vs. "this comes from early context" (i.e. supplied materials from prompts/discovery) vs. "this comes from later tokens, likely the model doom-looped itself".
Interesting question and I don’t share your pessimism. Feels like it’s a matter of some plain old Bayesian stats, almost a homework assignment given all experimental data is available and known.
IMHO this also depends on the type of assertion.. For example, one system defines three broad classes of assertion : pure opinion (I like green); factual references (the current temperature here is 20c) ; and the rest in a catch-all about "reasoned judgements"
Complex assertions and their compounded forms can be filtered by these classes fairly easily. I rarely see this referenced in general comments.
opinion is ephemeral, cannot be independently confirmed or denied; purely single viewer information sounds like not-a-fact to me
Opinion is a ghost in the machine—fleeting, unanchored, and vanishing upon inspection. It leaves no footprint for another mind to verify, no independent trail of evidence to confirm or deny its existence. To rely on such solitary perception is to drift in a void where facts do not exist; it is not merely uncertainty, but an absence of reality itself—a whisper that the universe refuses to echo back.
--AI Carl Sagan
Exactly. A fact is something that can be objectively confirmed or rejected. Exactly what a specific person likes is a fact, because it can be verified/falsified by simply asking them. An opinion, by contrast is 'Elephants are large.' The reason that's an opinion is because while it seems obviously true, it's subjective. Similarly, grass is purple with pink polka-dots is a fact. It's obviously false, but of course right/wrong has nothing to do with fact/opinion.
> the hidden state for different layers carry meaningful self-awareness signal for various situations.
Is it plausible to wonder if some developer judgement feels, like maybe "the code I just wrote is clean/crufty", or "things came together smoothly/janky", might have extractable signals in some models?
If so, might one create a shopping list of desired signals to check for in a model, as with activation steering concepts, where one checks whether and how hard each concept can usefully be nudged?
Was actually pulling on a similar thread as I saw announcement so I integrated it just for fun. Have been only running this on my Framework Desktop but should be runnable elsewhere
https://github.com/olafura/gemma-4-mic-transcribe
> So we did mechanistic studies on small models, Gemma 4 particularly, and found the hidden state for different layers carry meaningful self-awareness signal for various situations.
Neat! Just to make sure I understand - you trained your probe layer to take this hidden state and predict p(wrong)?
Curious to learn more. Any more info on your approach (esp the mechanistic study)?
Correct, the study is verbose, we will compile into a neat shareable report and publish once we solve the pending caveats. Interesting username btw haha.
Is it also post-trained to know when it's wrong about when it's wrong?
> "Every response comes with a confidence score between 0 and 1"
How confident is it in its confidence?
Please, I'm sure that what you're doing is very neat and useful, but use other language to describe it. I beg you. You can't know when you're wrong. You can only know when you're unsure or inconsistent. You can be absolutely certain and still wrong and uncertain and still correct.
Now there might be even better ways of getting feedback, I saw some interesting trials using "J-spaces" (from Anthropic's latest research in this area). Turns out you can kinda see when the model uses deep seeded concepts in early layers, or it's "riffing on an idea" with shallow signals in those same layers. And youc an get some signal out of it, and have it re-do a step.
It's also worth mentioning that LMs are wrong in different ways from humans. It's not impossible that we'll eventually find ways of better understanding this (through mechanistic interpretation or something else) and have easy "classifiers" for "this comes from the training data" vs. "this comes from early context" (i.e. supplied materials from prompts/discovery) vs. "this comes from later tokens, likely the model doom-looped itself".
Complex assertions and their compounded forms can be filtered by these classes fairly easily. I rarely see this referenced in general comments.
"I like green" is a statement of fact about what you like. "Green is good" would be an opinion. It's funny to me how often people mix the two.
> forms can be filtered by these classes fairly easily
Obviously not so easily. :)
Opinion is a ghost in the machine—fleeting, unanchored, and vanishing upon inspection. It leaves no footprint for another mind to verify, no independent trail of evidence to confirm or deny its existence. To rely on such solitary perception is to drift in a void where facts do not exist; it is not merely uncertainty, but an absence of reality itself—a whisper that the universe refuses to echo back. --AI Carl Sagan
Is it plausible to wonder if some developer judgement feels, like maybe "the code I just wrote is clean/crufty", or "things came together smoothly/janky", might have extractable signals in some models?
If so, might one create a shopping list of desired signals to check for in a model, as with activation steering concepts, where one checks whether and how hard each concept can usefully be nudged?
Neat! Just to make sure I understand - you trained your probe layer to take this hidden state and predict p(wrong)?
Curious to learn more. Any more info on your approach (esp the mechanistic study)?
And thanks, huge pasta fan :)
Or using it for sub-tasks, where a framework with a larger primary model dispatches simpler jobs ("summarize ...", etc.) to it?