Cloudflare Flagship

(developers.cloudflare.com)

128 points | by tjek 5 hours ago

19 comments

  • crabmusket 3 hours ago
    Looking at the docs for their JS SDK, they have this warning:

    > The client provider requires an API token to fetch flag values. This token is not scoped to a single app, so anyone with the token can evaluate flags across all apps in your account. Use the client provider with caution in public-facing applications.

    https://developers.cloudflare.com/flagship/sdk/client-provid...

    Can anyone clarify... why the client SDK, designed to be deployed to browsers, requires caution? Does this mean that any client could send requests with a new targetingKey and observe other users' flags?

    While flags probably shouldn't be critical information, this seems like an interesting design choice.

    • roerohan 38 minutes ago
      Hi! One of the engineers from the Flagship team here, app-scoped tokens are WIP.
      • stingraycharles 34 minutes ago
        That sounds like the product is not finished and should not be released?
        • ai_fry_ur_brain 1 minute ago
          This has been the Cloudflare standard operating procedure for the last year or so. Non stop shipping alpha/beta products.
      • yuretz 15 minutes ago
        Is it perhaps available behind a flag somewhere?
      • Craighead 33 minutes ago
        Then it's not finished?
    • OptionOfT 3 hours ago
      Let's think about it. This is probably something used internally at CloudFlare and someone thought I'd be interesting to make it public.

      There is no way 6 months ago someone at CloudFlare thought it was a good idea to build a competitor to say LaunchDarkly.

      • jasonjmcghee 2 hours ago
        Hmm not sure I necessarily agree. Cloudflare's strategy has been looking like "the only platform you need" for a while now.

        Their recent features / announcements have been equivalent to:

        (LaunchDarkly)

        Resend, Firecrawl, CrewAI, Helicone, Replicate, Pinecone

        -

        Which like… many companies have a painful procurement process. If all you need is Cloudflare, and prices are within reason- why not use them

        • gowthamgts12 7 minutes ago
          Their quality of the products they ship have already became shitty for quite a while now.
        • stingraycharles 33 minutes ago
          Don’t forget they now also have an OpenRouter alternative.
      • bg24 2 hours ago
        Both Cloudflare and Vercel have feature parity. Flags is a feature already in Vercel. While customer-first is a thing, it is also a no-brainer to start with: we use it, Vercel has it, let us build it.
      • roerohan 36 minutes ago
        • Hamuko 20 minutes ago
          >Agentic coding tools like OpenCode and Claude Code are shipping entire features in minutes.

          How many minutes do I need to wait until app-scoped tokens are live?

      • wahnfrieden 2 hours ago
        Care to share why
    • jjcm 1 hour ago
      Jane Wong salivating reading this
  • btown 2 hours ago
    Never underestimate the power of a zero-network-hop abstraction over f(feature_name, context).

    And context can be extremely tailored to your niche: specific inventory, from a specific supplier, for a specific user of a specific B2B client of a specific business model subtype, who should or shouldn’t see certain features on that specific inventory at certain times.

    When you can write your own logic, and just run this in a tight loop as easily and performantly as you can use a constant, it makes your business incredibly agile. Think some text might change for some customers? Just write the code to make it configurable, and you get tests and flags for free.

    Sadly, that zero-hop setup requires a sophisticated client execution engine, which it doesn’t appear Cloudflare has implemented here. Makes sense for their memory constrained workers, less sense for traditional infrastructure.

    Statsig has an approach here that I quite like:

    > To be able to do this, Server SDKs hold the entire ruleset of your project in memory - a representation of each gate or experiment in JSON. On client SDKs, we evaluate all of the gates/experiments when you call initialize - on our servers.

    https://docs.statsig.com/sdks/how-evaluation-works

    You can also roll your own - just sync your rulesets to a few data structures every few seconds in a background thread and atomically swap the reference to them. Then you just need a CRUD interface over the applicability ruleset dimensions.

    Just be careful to have governance on who can play with which would-be constants. Great power and great responsibility and all that!

  • tiffanyh 3 hours ago
    This is nice, but I’m still waiting for this to be delivered (which ironically is probably using Flagship):

    https://blog.cloudflare.com/enterprise-grade-features-for-al...

    —-

    I don’t believe a single enterprise only feature has made its way to lower tier (paid) account yet.

    I’m most interested in:

    https://developers.cloudflare.com/speed/optimization/content...

  • elamje 1 hour ago
    I’m always excited when Cloudflare starts offering things that I had to use other providers for because I know it will be solid.

    We used Statsig at Function. It started out as 2 of us using it on one product and within 12 months, large amounts of our product copy and rollouts were driven off of it.

    Statsig has client side evals so you can write rules and rollouts based on internal concepts without Statsig’s servers processing a piece of user data. Hoping Cloudflare can build a sophisticated product here so I don’t have use another product in the future!

    • w-ll 1 hour ago
      you use a 3rd party for feature flags? im not "roll my own" for everything but feature flags have not been an issue to roll
      • willsmith72 56 minutes ago
        There's feature flags then there's staged rollouts gated by multiple variables with statistical analysis
  • aetherspawn 4 hours ago
    Cloudflare are winning these days, they’re just lacking good fine grained permissions. You still have to make an entirely separate account for prod, which messes up SSO since one domain can only be bound to one account.
    • corvad 3 hours ago
      Their products are cool and I've been happy with them over the years, but their blog right now has had some blunders recently. Also their reliability seems to have been having trouble but does seem better recently.
    • willsmith72 54 minutes ago
      Yep I made the switch a couple of years ago for all of my projects and never looked back. Workers, D1, R2, queues, containers, KV

      Still using AWS for email sending so that will be great when it comes

      • corvad 46 minutes ago
        It already came if you use workers I believe, still in beta though. I would love to switch to it but I still need the SMTP interface though. https://developers.cloudflare.com/email-service/
        • willsmith72 0 minutes ago
          wow thanks. I saw the initial announcement when it was still in private beta, but have been less online lately and missed the public launch. Awesome!!
      • h4ch1 45 minutes ago
        E-mail sending is in beta afaik, you need the Workers paid plan to use it.
        • willsmith72 0 minutes ago
          thank you!! missed the public launch
    • atsaloli 4 hours ago
      Yes! I just opened a support case today asking for more fine grained permissions.
    • pupppet 3 hours ago
      After years of AWS I gave Cloudflare a whirl and loved the UX but ultimately retreated back due to the same concern. They are so close though..
    • wilj 3 hours ago
      This is exactly what stops me from using them for real work. I love their free tier for my hobby stuff.
    • wahnfrieden 2 hours ago
      Will never use them without prepayment or spending limit options. Insane to be a bug, attack, or misclick away from 6-7 digit invoice
      • weird-eye-issue 1 hour ago
        Their pricing is not ridiculous like some providers. It would be very hard to rack up that kind of bill, especially considering their rate limiting rules are now free to use.
      • behindsight 1 hour ago
        the CTO of Cloudflare (hn: dknecht) said:

        > It is in the works. The billing team has been sprinting to fix a lot of debt in this area. I don’t have a date.

        https://x.com/dok2001/status/2051220429973389622

    • teaearlgraycold 3 hours ago
      Just let everyone have access to prod?
      • corvad 3 hours ago
        One account gets compromised and your doomed. A lot of companies even have prod access be a request based system. Most modern security models with zero trust don't let everyone have access to everything, quite the opposite.
      • toomuchtodo 3 hours ago
        Poor access and change management governance.
      • greenchair 3 hours ago
        hooboy that was a good one!
  • glasshug 3 hours ago
    OpenFeature was new to me, neat! Anyone have experience integrating this? https://openfeature.dev
    • Atotalnoob 3 hours ago
      It’s pretty useful. We used it at a previous company. We built a custom backend, but used the spec and SDKs.

      It took like 2 weeks to build a full custom backend. SDKs across languages worked flawlessly (okay, we did find one bug, reported it, and it was fixed within the day)

  • swyx 1 hour ago
    i see @btown's comment below but also just for education about this space:

    - anyone have comments/comparisons about launchdarkly vs posthog vs statsig (is it still alive after openai?) vs _____ vs cloudflare flagship?

    like a "beginner/intermediate/advanced" progression of what to look out for/what you will want when it comes to feature flags would be highly helpful for me and many others here

  • tuananh 23 minutes ago
    this make perfect sense for cloudflare.

    and im sure they can drive down the cost , compared to say launchdarkly

  • pm90 3 hours ago
    More of this please: essential tools for building modern software must be oss; Im fine with paying for a hosted version but just the benefit of learning one tool and being able to use it everywhere (linux, k8s, python etc) is amazing.
    • isodev 2 hours ago
      Cloudflare oss?
  • zuzululu 2 hours ago
    A bit tangent but related: These things I'm never sure if I should be shipping on day one with mobile apps (Flutter in particular): Flagships, bug gathering, A/B testing ?

    I feel strong inclination too but its also way too early before any real users can prove PMF. I've been using Google stuff but wonder if Flagship and perhaps other Cloudflare offerings can help.

    The other side is that again it feels too early for this stuff and I just want to ship something quickly.

    The work ivnvolved

  • OsrsNeedsf2P 3 hours ago
    Has anyone struggled to run their own feature flagging service? After root causing slow app starts to be caused by the equivalent offering from Firebase, I've been cautious to use any off the shelf solutions
    • dboreham 3 hours ago
      It's literally a field in your database. I could never fathom why this needs to be an outsourced service never mind an entire company.
      • youngprogrammer 3 hours ago
        It can get complicated quickly if you're actually using it in a production system. At my prev enterprise saas company we had feature flags that could be turned on per customer / per environment (dev, staging, prod) with permission + logging model such that our support team could also toggle flags with history of who turned on what. We also had "per user" feature flags for certain test users at companies and had DSL rules to evaluate the features
      • tuananh 22 minutes ago
        when started, yes. but then you want segment (how you segment your user), rollout strategy, etc.. it will get complicated fast
      • OccamsMirror 2 hours ago
        Thank you! I've never understood why this needs to be an external dependency with network requests.
        • NicoJuicy 1 hour ago
          Deploy to master ( microservices)
      • strix_varius 1 hour ago
        Booleans as a Service
  • etothet 48 minutes ago
    I don’t have experience with the tools Cloudflare has been shipping this year so I can’t speak about the quality, but they have really been pushing out a lot new products and services, no doubt due to agentic coding.
  • ec109685 2 hours ago
    Missing gradual rollout of feature flag changes themselves. Yes, you can do percentage based rollouts for individual features but still should have ability to canary all changes before they cause an insta-sev.
  • EFLKumo 4 hours ago
    Worth noticing a Vercel equivalent: https://github.com/vercel/flags
  • maxdo 2 hours ago
    a flagship with no pirates, all fired due to ai.
  • EGreg 4 hours ago
    If anyone is interested, you can implement something like that with a few lines of code on the front end. We expose a function that generates a uniformly-distributed hash that you can use for A/B testing and other uses:

      Q.Data.variant()
    
    https://github.com/Qbix/Q.js/blob/main/src/js/Q.minimal.js#L...

    And on the back end, you'd use it like this:

    https://github.com/Qbix/Platform/blob/main/platform/classes/...

    Essentially, this can support a huge number of "variants" and within each variant you can have N equal segments. That will help you do A/B testing and flipping features on or off.

  • Ayush_Khati1 36 minutes ago
    [flagged]
  • qzgrid37 34 minutes ago
    [dead]
  • throwaway613746 3 hours ago
    Feature flags are so ridiculously simple I have never needed to outsource this to someone else.
    • odie5533 18 minutes ago
      Do your running services receive streaming updates when Flags are toggled? Is your rule-engine evaluated locally?