A year ago, I got my 8 y/o a landline (we used Ooma). It has been absolutely wonderful.
By far the best thing is that he makes his own playdates. I'm not the middleman anymore. He just makes plans and asks me if it's ok. And if his friend doesn't have a landline, I let him call their parent. It surprises them, but when he leaves a message, they love it. He's definitely had more time with friends because of it.
Another funny thing was he complained about writing a thank you note, so we said "OK, the alternative is that you have to call them". He called them, had a nice conversation, and thanked them. Honestly, it was better than a thank you note.
It's been one of the best purchases we're made. I feel some hope this will delay the eventual begging for a smart phone because he's able to do the most critical thing, connect with friends.
My 9 and 12 year old share a "kid" phone that's just a hand-me-down parent phone. This partially meets that need, but it still gets used for way too much unsupervised YouTube time.
The thing for me that has really unlocked voice-based socializing has been the 12 year old jumping on Discord with his buddies from school. I feel like this mirrors well how I myself chat with my adult male friends—it's rarely in the context of just "a call" but rather while doing another activity. So when I see him joking around with them while they play Minecraft or whatever, that feels like it's a reasonable pattern for how to sustain friendships.
Make me really want to build one for my son when he gets to that age.
If I build it, I can control the full feature set and explain to him how it worked and he'll get the 'cool' factor too. With the raspberry pi I have lying around at home, it doesn't sound impossible!
I dug out an old Motofone (the $40 eink candybar) for this reason, only to discover that it’s 2G, which has been decommissioned. Too bad, would’ve been fun to watch the kid learn T9.
I was thinking of doing something like this for text with LoRa. But, having kids I don't have time to do that. This seems really great!
I read the previous discussion, oof:
S04dKHzrKT wrote
Make note of the privacy policy[1]. Some users may not like the data they collect.
> Information Collected from Children: As detailed in Section 3.C, we collect voice audio during calls, call log information, and utilize the Parent-provided contact list in relation to the Child's use of the Tin Can Device. We may also collect device identifiers and technical usage data related to the Service.
Also note that if you buy a Tin Can unit, there's a noncompete clause: You agree not to "build, benchmark, or develop a competing product or service." So don't buy this if you work for a telco, or a voice communications service of any kind.
>Call Logs: We collect information about calls made using Phones, including the phone numbers you call or receive calls from, the date/time of the calls, and the length of the calls. We also collect network quality metrics and other technical data related to call performance. Please note that we do not record calls.
The version of the privacy policy cited in the previous discussion cited that voice audio is collected for the purposes of forwarding it to the other phone.
I was thinking something like an esp32 + mesthastic / LoRa + REST API on the LAN, discoverable via multi cast. The "landline" is a tablet or phone with an app that talks to the esp32. Separately, a parent with the app does the Diffie-Hellman key exchange over SMS, NFC, or some other channel with the friends who also have the app, and you know their identity. The phone app updates the device with the friend's keys, they do the same thing on their end, and voila you're in business. The kids can talk securely, you can read that the kids say via the LAN, no goddamned third parties.
I'm a happy Tin Can customer. For young children (5 and 7 in my case) it's especially delightful to give them a measure of autonomy, at an age where they don't yet have a mobile phone. They get to call their friends and family on their own terms, without any safety or "screen time" concerns.
It's especially fun to watch them discover the very concept of a landline: the keypad (they thought it was a pin code); the dial tone; the memorizing and writing down of phone numbers.
> Alarmingly, some Gen Zers don't say "hello" when they answer a phone call; they expect the caller to just start talking.
I'm an older Gen-X and I've stopped doing this unless I recognize the caller. I'm not going to give a scammer anything to build a voice print on. I also use the stock greeting for voicemail instead of a personal one.
Y-Zer myself and I do the same thing. I never initiate the communication when called unless I am expecting it or I know who the caller is. Otherwise, they'll know when someone picked up because their side will stop ringing, and they'll only get awkward silence until they start talking. Often times it's an automated voice system that will not begin until prompted by the callee, so it hits a timeout and hangs up.
The number of calls I get where it's either dead silence in the other end or clearly a call center based on the noise can only be categorized as "too much".
Yes, people think this behaviour came out of nowhere. It’s because if you are younger, phone calls are not the default (only two friends ever call me) and overwhelmingly are scammers or salespeople.
I've been actively trying to think of a better way to answer the phone without sounding rude. but without giving up my name or mentally accepting whoever is on the other side (like hello tends to do)
I normally don't answer calls I don't recognize the number to, but if I might be expecting a call and have an inkling it might even possibly be spam, I just answer with a short 'ya?'
Slightly rude, but saying nothing at all is just bizarre to me.
Edit to add: One thing I've done for the last decade or so is use a number from an area code I don't live in. Most of my spam calls come from the same area code, so if I see that I know it's spam or a wrong number.
Thanks for linking to it. Folks, before you rush to offer your genius ACKSHUALLY ideas about how Google Voice will let you do "the same thing as Tin Can for free", please, please, think about what GV does and, more importantly, does not (Hint: Whitelist).
For the nerdy who might want to set up their own similar system for their kids, and let their kids pick any landline phone they want, you can get an ATA (Analog Telephone Adapter) on eBay for cheap, then connect it to a Raspberry Pi with Asterisk, and any VOIP provider, to make your own PBX. (https://www.littlebytesofpi.com/raspberrypihomephone/)
Wonderful idea. The kid can call their friend "Let's meet outside". Then they go outside and (must) leave the phone at home. They use the phone to organize no-phone time together. Might be good for adults too.
For instance my boss couldn't call me while I'm out and about. What you expect me to carry my landline with me?
In the age of FT audio calls and such, it seems out of place. I get paying for the hardware, and even a bit of a premium because the UI has so many parental controls. But charging a monthly fee seems surprising since the differentiation versus FT/GV/etc. is on the UI side, not the "you can talk to your friends" side. There is no monthly cost to a UI.
If you want to call POTS numbers, seems reasonable to pay a fee. voip.ms (of Canada, I think) charges ~ $2/month for a number and ~ $0.01 / minute for calls to US/Canada, calls to other subscribers are free. They work with deposits and a balance. Something in that range seems reasonable... maybe a little bit more if there's some work to make it specifically kid friendly (parental controls for incoming/outgoing calls?)
That's entirely pragmatic in this data collecting age. Being silent and hanging up as soon as you hear the spam won't get you marked as a phone line that has a human on the other end nor do you risk your voice being recorded. If you're silly enough to say your name when answering you'll just end up with text and email that is now personalised with your name (it's much faster to identify and hang up when their best intro is to say "hello who am i speaking to?" on a single person line click).
I don't know anyone in my age bracket (45) who doesn't do this let alone those younger. It's entirely understood and expected. Fuck anyone who says it's rude and those of an age particularly prone to falling for scams (70+ and 15under) should be encouraged to do this. You should be telling your kids "never say anything on picking up, let the caller to your phone identify themselves! They could be scammers trying to get your details such as your name".
I feel all these "OMG the kids don't say hello anymore they have no etiquette!!!" statements are either from the clueless or from spammers frustrated that it's much harder to get through if you don't know their name.
I never answer my land line with "Hello", because predictive dialers recognize that as a go signal for telemarketers. I usually answer my land line with my name, business style. Cell phone is answered with "Hi, ... " depending on who's calling.
> You should be telling your kids "never say anything on picking up, let the caller to your phone identify themselves! They could be scammers trying to get your details such as your name".
How does saying "hello" give scammers your details such as your name?
I think the op was maybe on a bit of a tear and misspoke, but the sentiment is correct. These days even saying hello can be used to make a decent voice clone with some reasonable (say 50%) chance that it is you (your phone number is linked to a ton of information). I would personally try to minimize my exposure to this risk even if it is somewhat paranoid.
This is the ultimate "parents think it's great, kids will think it's lame" product. I mean, I like it. And just the name conjures images of GenXers yelling at clouds on TikTok about how they used to use tin cans or Solo cups connected with string to talk to their friends, so it's clear who they're targeting with the marketing. But if I were 11-13yo and I got this when all my friends got an iPhone? I'd be furious.
But I dunno. Kids being what they are, seem to be developing curiosity about "retro tech". So maybe there's some sort of whiplash effect occurring among them.
Yeah, I also pause when I read articles like this. The parent in this story is trying to go "full 90s", like that was when kids were raised the best... which just happens to be the time when they were kids. Except, when I was a kid in the 90s, the parents at that time thought the 90s things were horrible and longed for the best time to raise kids... which of course was when they were children.
1. Allowing the kids to call parents and no one else, without all the extra baggage that comes with a smartphone.
2. Multiple families getting together and deciding this is how their kids will communicate with each other (i.e. all agreeing not to get smartphones for their kids).
> But if I were 11-13yo and I got this when all my friends got an iPhone? I'd be furious.
If you've decided they're not getting a smartphone at that age, they'll be furious regardless. They may opt for this as an alternative. Up to the kids.
I read it as they were talking about the idea of having kids still go play with actual tin cans and a string in this day and age rather than it be something only old people could have done.
This is for kids who don't yet have a smart phone, not as a smart phone replacement for kids who already had smartphones. I made something similar for my kids(basically, a phone with buttons that can call a fixed set of people), and my kids love it, and use it multiple times per day.
> Probably the best thing is a CB radio. Let them talk to any other kids in town but no chance of weirdness.
No chance of weirdness? On CB? Have you used a CB?!?
I had a CB in my car for a while and the majority of the talk I ever heard on it outside of traffic updates and cop reports on major interstate highways was weird shit.
If the kid doesn't have a smartphone, and looks around and sees kids who do have one, they're gonna be envious and pissed when their parents tell them they can't have one. I know because it's analogous to what I felt when I was still slumming it with my TI-99/4A when every other kid had a NES back in the late 80s.
Pfft those suckers didn't have Parsec or Car Wars or Ms. Pac Man plus the hours spent typing TI-BASIC from a magazine was less frustrating than trying to get the jumps right on Super Mario Bros level 8-2. And I'm sure Demolition Division and Meteor Multiplication are why I ended up with a math degree.
For real though I spent so much time pining for Mario 3 before my parents finally did give in. But I feel like there was something good about the diversity, like when I could play Lode Runner on my buddy's C64 (actually a 128... GO 64)
By far the best thing is that he makes his own playdates. I'm not the middleman anymore. He just makes plans and asks me if it's ok. And if his friend doesn't have a landline, I let him call their parent. It surprises them, but when he leaves a message, they love it. He's definitely had more time with friends because of it.
Another funny thing was he complained about writing a thank you note, so we said "OK, the alternative is that you have to call them". He called them, had a nice conversation, and thanked them. Honestly, it was better than a thank you note.
It's been one of the best purchases we're made. I feel some hope this will delay the eventual begging for a smart phone because he's able to do the most critical thing, connect with friends.
The thing for me that has really unlocked voice-based socializing has been the 12 year old jumping on Discord with his buddies from school. I feel like this mirrors well how I myself chat with my adult male friends—it's rarely in the context of just "a call" but rather while doing another activity. So when I see him joking around with them while they play Minecraft or whatever, that feels like it's a reasonable pattern for how to sustain friendships.
If I build it, I can control the full feature set and explain to him how it worked and he'll get the 'cool' factor too. With the raspberry pi I have lying around at home, it doesn't sound impossible!
I read the previous discussion, oof:
S04dKHzrKT wrote
Make note of the privacy policy[1]. Some users may not like the data they collect. > Information Collected from Children: As detailed in Section 3.C, we collect voice audio during calls, call log information, and utilize the Parent-provided contact list in relation to the Child's use of the Tin Can Device. We may also collect device identifiers and technical usage data related to the Service.
[1]: https://tincan.kids/policies/privacy-policy
>Call Logs: We collect information about calls made using Phones, including the phone numbers you call or receive calls from, the date/time of the calls, and the length of the calls. We also collect network quality metrics and other technical data related to call performance. Please note that we do not record calls.
The version of the privacy policy cited in the previous discussion cited that voice audio is collected for the purposes of forwarding it to the other phone.
It's especially fun to watch them discover the very concept of a landline: the keypad (they thought it was a pin code); the dial tone; the memorizing and writing down of phone numbers.
5/5 highly recommended.
I'm an older Gen-X and I've stopped doing this unless I recognize the caller. I'm not going to give a scammer anything to build a voice print on. I also use the stock greeting for voicemail instead of a personal one.
The number of calls I get where it's either dead silence in the other end or clearly a call center based on the noise can only be categorized as "too much".
Slightly rude, but saying nothing at all is just bizarre to me.
Edit to add: One thing I've done for the last decade or so is use a number from an area code I don't live in. Most of my spam calls come from the same area code, so if I see that I know it's spam or a wrong number.
For instance my boss couldn't call me while I'm out and about. What you expect me to carry my landline with me?
So you have to pay a monthly subscription for this, in addition to $75 for each phone, if you want to talk with anyone outside of their walled garden?
That's entirely pragmatic in this data collecting age. Being silent and hanging up as soon as you hear the spam won't get you marked as a phone line that has a human on the other end nor do you risk your voice being recorded. If you're silly enough to say your name when answering you'll just end up with text and email that is now personalised with your name (it's much faster to identify and hang up when their best intro is to say "hello who am i speaking to?" on a single person line click).
I don't know anyone in my age bracket (45) who doesn't do this let alone those younger. It's entirely understood and expected. Fuck anyone who says it's rude and those of an age particularly prone to falling for scams (70+ and 15under) should be encouraged to do this. You should be telling your kids "never say anything on picking up, let the caller to your phone identify themselves! They could be scammers trying to get your details such as your name".
I feel all these "OMG the kids don't say hello anymore they have no etiquette!!!" statements are either from the clueless or from spammers frustrated that it's much harder to get through if you don't know their name.
How does saying "hello" give scammers your details such as your name?
But I dunno. Kids being what they are, seem to be developing curiosity about "retro tech". So maybe there's some sort of whiplash effect occurring among them.
1. Allowing the kids to call parents and no one else, without all the extra baggage that comes with a smartphone.
2. Multiple families getting together and deciding this is how their kids will communicate with each other (i.e. all agreeing not to get smartphones for their kids).
> But if I were 11-13yo and I got this when all my friends got an iPhone? I'd be furious.
If you've decided they're not getting a smartphone at that age, they'll be furious regardless. They may opt for this as an alternative. Up to the kids.
No chance of weirdness? On CB? Have you used a CB?!?
I had a CB in my car for a while and the majority of the talk I ever heard on it outside of traffic updates and cop reports on major interstate highways was weird shit.
For real though I spent so much time pining for Mario 3 before my parents finally did give in. But I feel like there was something good about the diversity, like when I could play Lode Runner on my buddy's C64 (actually a 128... GO 64)