Croatia declared free of landmines after 31 years

(glashrvatske.hrt.hr)

223 points | by toomuchtodo 6 hours ago

10 comments

  • elAhmo 0 minutes ago
    Placing landmines is probably among the shittiest and most vile things someone can do.

    Knowing that ten, twenty, maybe 50 years after a conflict ends a completely innocent and unrelated person, maybe even not born at the time you did it, might die or get permanently disabled is a sick move.

    Place where I grew up is still full of landmines (Bosnia and Herzegovina), and some of the people who placed those mines are government officials today, loved by EU because of their natural resources.

  • ulrikrasmussen 20 minutes ago
    Something I have really wondered is, why aren't there stronger incentives to build mines with a mechanism that disables them after a certain time has passed? There must be tactical and strategical reasons which are regarded more important, but surely the party using them for defending their own land ought to have an interest in not having to deal with this threat for decades after the war has ended, and an aggressor who wishes to take over an area should have the same incentives.

    Or are the reasons technical, that it is simply too difficult to develop a reliable mechanism for disabling them?

    • eitland 5 minutes ago
      There is always the option to use battery (some modern mines use this),for example RAAMS.

      The problem is of the enemy know you use only mines that work for max n hours or m days they just wait for n + 1 hours or m + 1 days.

      There is a lot more to say about this, but there are probably people way more qualified than be here to explain it.

    • ultratalk 17 minutes ago
      I'm guessing it's the latter, because you have to keep the mine-disabling mechanisms working and powered up through possible adverse weather and environmental conditions for long enough that the conflict has a fair chance of having ended.
    • TiredOfLife 18 minutes ago
      That is exactly how modern mines work
  • ra 3 hours ago
    I stayed near Dubrovnik in the summer of 2005. There was a wildfire burning on on the hills behind us.

    The fire traversed the hillside, and every hour or two a landmine would explode.

    This was ten years after the war.

    • segmondy 1 hour ago
      10 years is a long time, but 10 years after a war is not a long time. Damages to building still remains, mines and plenty of unexploded ordinances will remain, and psychological scars are still very strong.
  • locusofself 2 hours ago
    I had the good fortune of going to Croatia (as an American) for work about 10 years ago, and I milked that trip hard. What a beautiful country. Dubrovnik, Split, Hvar Island, it was pretty magical.
    • yieldcrv 2 hours ago
      Conflict zones are the most beautiful places

      They make me immediately go “oh I get it”

      • testdelacc1 24 minutes ago
        What a strange and sweeping comment. There’s a conflict going on in Darfur. Does Darfur make you go “oh I get it”?
  • andrewflnr 1 hour ago
    I wonder how long it will take in Ukraine.

    Actually at the rate we're going, there will still be active minefield defenses for most of our lifespans.

    • stevekemp 1 hour ago
      Poland withdrew from the Ottawa Convention last month, with the aim of being able to lay anti-personnel mines along its eastern border.

      Whether it does or not is an open-question, and while I understand it of course, the idea we're increasing the use of mines is a sad day. They're so indiscriminate and will no doubt cause injuries far into the future.

      • gljiva 11 minutes ago
        Placing landmines systematically during peacetime by a stable government-ran military should at least make clearing mines easier, and minefields better marked for locals. So, it's not completely indiscriminate. If it decreases war-related life loss (both direct and indirect), it's net positive
      • postepowanieadm 1 hour ago
        No one is going to build minefields, too populated area, too many wild animals. It's mostly about automatic mining - https://www.hsw.pl/produkty/pojazd-minowania-narzutowego-bao...
        • nolist_policy 8 minutes ago
          > The BAOBAB-K Mine Laying Vehicle allows the laying of minefields of various sizes, mine densities, and self-clearance times.

          The self-clearing is interesting and I hindsight auch an obvious thing to implement.

      • dopa42365 1 hour ago
        There's no border wall, just a typical bike road next to a small fence. So no, unless Poland is planning to blow up their own civilians, they won't mine their own country lol.
        • Xylakant 7 minutes ago
          My wife’s part of the Family has a house with view of the border to Belarusia. It used to be a small fence just in front of a wood, but that’s long past. It’s truly a wall now.
    • wiseowise 13 minutes ago
      Putin’s war, bro. It’s aaall Putin laying the mines.
  • HelloUsername 22 minutes ago
    How do they know? (Serious question)
    • kqr 21 minutes ago
      Because

      > all known minefields have been cleared

      When clearing minefields, one does not miss mines, because that would be lethal! Every cube inch is carefully mapped. It is extremely hard work.

  • gregjw 3 hours ago
    I wonder when/if places like vietnam will ever achieve this.

    Hell, Australia still has WW2 mines.

    • Animats 3 hours ago
      France still has WWI unexploded ordnance, and keep-out areas are still being de-mined. This has been going on for a century now. About 900 tons of explosives are removed each year. Completion in 700 years at the current rate.[1]

      [1] https://www.warhistoryonline.com/world-war-i/the-red-zone-la...

    • strken 2 hours ago
      Does Australia have any landmines? I was under the impression that we had some areas with sea mines which had been swept but still weren't guaranteed safe, and that was it.
    • riffraff 3 hours ago
      Is that actual land mines or generic lost explosives and unexploded bombs?

      Cause the latter is pretty common in Europe too, but I'm surprised you have actually minefields which haven't been cleared up in Australia.

    • MattGaiser 3 hours ago
      I imagine a lot has to do with motivation. Canada has UXO that it doesn't clean up as land is abundant.
    • adamnemecek 2 hours ago
      This feels like a perfect use case for AI.
  • gethly 1 hour ago
    Meanwhile.... Poland.
    • TiredOfLife 11 minutes ago
      Poland and other countries that just abandoned the mine treaty border russia and belarus. You know, the country that launched and the country that allowed its land to launch largest war in europe since WW2.
  • KingMob 2 hours ago
    I visited Vientiane in Laos a couple years ago. One of the more depressing places to visit there is the COPE Center.

    It's a group that provides prosthetics to people who have lost body parts due to landmines left over from the Vietnam War.

    Even decades later, there are areas in Laos that have so many unexploded bomblets, it's dangerous to do stuff there, or even build.

  • toomuchtodo 6 hours ago
    • bobmcnamara 3 hours ago
      Oof, only 90% survival rate for deminers.
      • smokeyfish 2 hours ago
        Drones can help these days
        • lukan 2 hours ago
          Can drones sniff explosives? I think that would be very expensive, they can have metal detectors, and mark suspicious sites for someone (or something, like a different digging drone) else to check.

          But rats can sniff explosives and do so succesfully.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magawa

          • ultratalk 21 minutes ago
            > He spent a number of weeks mentoring 20 newly-recruited rats

            How does that work for a rat? Sounds interesting.

            • lukan 16 minutes ago
              I don't know how it works for rats, but I assume it is like with dogs. If you have already a trained dog, you make the same exercises with the trained and the untrained dog, so the untrained dog can just watch what the trained dog does and imitate it.
          • TiredOfLife 9 minutes ago
            The flying ones can use thermal cameras. The mines and surrounding areas change temperature differently.

            Then the ground ones do the actual demining.

            • lukan 6 minutes ago
              But this only works for mines not or only lightly covered by earth I assume?

              There has been lots of rain falling from the sky, moving earth, since the mines were laid.