Writing seen in PHerc. 306B, for the first time in 2000 years

(scrollprize.substack.com)

128 points | by benbreen 1 day ago

12 comments

  • bgribble 11 hours ago
    There is all sorts of amazing science happening in the world right now, and as a layperson I have a "hot list" of probably a dozen different topics that can make me jump up and down when there's a new announcement. But the Herculaneum scrolls, for some reason, are a special case. I get just unreasonably excited whenever they make any progress.

    I know that in the end this is "just" an ancient library of Epicurean philosophy and will probably have a bunch of redundant copies of stuff that is really only of interest to (the very few remaining) classicists. But I have looked at a lot of data in my time, and I just keep thinking that the data set is big enough that there will be a few outliers -- maybe one copy of a previously lost Aristophanes comedy that a friend sent the librarian as a joke or birthday present or something and was stuck in the back under a pile of philosophy.

    • candlemas 10 hours ago
      What else is on your hot list?
  • goodmythical 6 hours ago
    It's really surprising to me that we have these language fragments that exist without any samples referencing the language itself.

    I suppose for very young languages there wasn't a lot of need to specify that something was written in one vs the other given that any reader could just plainly see it with their eyes and perhaps didn't have a lot of cause to have "well, in Russian they X whereas in Japanese they Y" conversations.

    But like...imagine a remote future in which we have only SMS fragments that read "you dtf" and "sup" and this weird purple thing with a green tip we're certain was a vegetable next to what we're absolutely convinced is a rendering of a butt and that's the entire corpus of the ancient XIZZY103.4 langauge.

  • janandonly 2 hours ago
    I hope that in the Herculean and Pompey library’s at least some early Christian texts turn up as well.

    Of all the “new testament” books we only have fragments form the first to the sixth century. It’s only with the Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Alexandrinus from around 650? That you find a complete Bible.

  • baoooooooooooo 16 hours ago
    I love the human sense (or vision) that we could find these in the 1750s as carbonized logs and know that we should keep and protect them - that we miiiiight be able to read them someday.
    • jiehong 16 hours ago
      Actually, quite a few got partially destroyed while humans tried to physically unroll them.

      I suppose they must have left the worse one to hope and to us

      • runeb 15 hours ago
        An unknown number of them were also allegedly burned for heat as they were mistaken for wood logs during early excavations
        • quotemstr 14 hours ago
          Odds those were all just yet more Epicurean philosophy though?
          • thinking_cactus 3 hours ago
            Come on, the (short) texts I've seen decoded were extremely exciting to me, surprising and event still relevant today. I think we have so comparatively little text from such an ancient time that every little passage we can recover is extremely valuable for preservation, historical context, or just philosophically, etc..

            This is often said, but this passage could really have been written today:

            "… we will inquire into something, but we

            will not grasp it, if in some way we depart

            from ourselves and from our own nature,

            and besides, in the same way as the

            remaining arts may be said to be perfected

            in one respect, but to be deficient in

            practical wisdom in another respect…"

            From PHerc. 1667, col 17 (see Complete virtual unwrapping and reading of a rolled Herculaneum papyrus, pg 25)

            Very cool stuff.

  • vessenes 14 hours ago
    I'm reminded of the human genome project here - in that case there was a geometric ramp-up that meant we went from 1 or 2% sequenced to 100% really quickly. This sort of doubling when you can get it is pretty magical.

    I'd like to imagine that we'll get something similar here sometime in the next ten years -- I understand there are (tens of?) thousands of these scrolls still to be scanned much less unrolled. Just an incredibly cool thing to be doing.

  • genxy 9 hours ago
    Amazing.

    > I am Liam Warner, from northern England. I’m a freelance software engineer/consultant that has worked in areas such as video games, healthcare, and broadcasting technology.

    > I am Nicola Bodill from Australia. I have a BA in Latin and Ancient Greek, and am a current MA student at the University of Sydney, working on a critical edition of a 2000-year-old Gandharan Buddhist birch-bark manuscript.

    Congrats to Nicola and Liam!

  • ldite 16 hours ago
    "Sufficiently advanced technology" indeed

    (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke%27s_three_laws)

    • embedding-shape 15 hours ago
      I wonder how many many "experts" fell into the trap of calling the reading of those scrolls "impossible" through the years? ("When a distinguished but elderly scientist states [...] that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong")
  • efitz 17 hours ago
    It’s amazing that they can reconstruct any text at all from those scrolls.
  • jl6 15 hours ago
    Amazing work. Makes you wonder what else is out there holding a record of the past, with us too primitive to read it.
  • matt3210 14 hours ago
    While reading, I thought it might be a 306B parameter model until I say 2000 years ago
  • simplyetchedsit 6 hours ago
    [flagged]
  • v3ss0n 15 hours ago
    Pherc 306B A12B when?