Character.ai Files for Bankruptcy

(theverge.com)

106 points | by yanis_t 2 hours ago

23 comments

  • seydor 2 minutes ago
    I had no idea there is a Morality Court
  • softwaredoug 5 minutes ago
    I worked at a company in 2000s that was acquired. I had no stock but the owner still gave a generous spot bonus and a years salary bonus retention package to employees. It’s sad that this doesn’t seem to be the norm? Screwing employees on acquisition seems like a severe breach of social contract.
  • schleck8 2 hours ago
    > Google spent over $2 billion to hire away much of the company’s talent, including co-founders Noam Shazeer and Daniel De Freitas, in 2024.
    • glimshe 1 hour ago
      That shouldn't have been a problem given that AI can fully replace talent. The whole company should in theory only have needed a dream and an Anthropic subscription.
      • Varelion 1 hour ago
        WOAH, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING IS DEAD! BUY MORE TOKENS!
        • inSumErgoCogito 1 hour ago
          Now i hear that in gandalfs moria voice: "Full of a Toke! Next time throw yourself after it into the wishing well!"
    • dumberquestions 47 minutes ago
      Well one of those two names was a core contributor to the Attention paper, arguably the top contributor, before leaving Google to make Character Ai, no wonder the re-hired him back (before he left again).
    • lelanthran 1 hour ago
      That's a long time ago. They should have been able to make a go of it in these hyped times.
    • nova22033 33 minutes ago
      Same thing they did with windsurf
  • forgetme2020 5 minutes ago
    The CEO and left a week ago. he must have been among the first to see this coming.
  • hirako2000 9 minutes ago
    So many job openings for a company going under.

    https://jobs.ashbyhq.com/character/

  • agnishom 3 minutes ago
    Will this kick off a wave off bankruptcy of companies with morally bankrupt ideas?
  • gizzlon 2 hours ago
    I wonder what will happen to all the very personal and sensitive data they (probably) have on users?
    • Medea 1 hour ago
      Probably auctioned off, like what happened to Spirit Airlines: https://news.bloomberglaw.com/bankruptcy-law/google-aims-to-...
      • gazook89 16 minutes ago
        > Google’s purchase doesn’t include personal data and privileged materials like Spirit’s 97.5 million passenger profiles or an estimated 50.2 million records related to the Free Spirit loyalty program data, according to court records.
      • renegade-otter 52 minutes ago
        It's unbelievable to me that this is legal. You put your trust into a corporate entity with your data. The entity goes away, so does the guarantee? Oh, OK.

        I learned that the hard way with 23&Me.

        • satvikpendem 37 minutes ago
          > I learned that the hard way with 23&Me.

          That's why I've never done a DNA test, it's not worth your literal biological data being sold off to god knows where to discriminate against you. I thought everyone realized this but didn't realize it was a niche opinion.

          • c-linkage 29 minutes ago
            It would have been nice if my siblings had the same opinion.
          • pfdietz 19 minutes ago
            Has that discrimination scenario ever happened?
      • GJim 5 minutes ago
        It's the FUD spread by the AdTech industry (including here on HN by people who's salaries are dependent on invading our privacy) that is holding back sensible data protection laws in the USA.
    • cmiles8 38 minutes ago
      It’s a company asset to auction off to the highest bidder now
  • thor-rodrigues 2 hours ago
    A lot of money moved through different hands, yet it doesn’t seems that nothing of value was created.

    I wonder how any of this makes sense.

    • scrollop 1 hour ago
      Have you peeked at how the (very complicated) financial markets work?

      Lot's of people staring at computers moving money and ious around complicated networks within complicated rules making money making money making money.

      Really progressing humanity forward :/

      • nater5000 15 minutes ago
        >Really progressing humanity forward :/

        You're using amazing technology funded through those financial processes to complain that those financial processes aren't progressing humanity forward lol. Modern AI is the perfect example of how financial systems are important for technological progression.

        Thinking complex financial systems aren't contributing to humanity's progress because you don't recognize how it is used to fundamentally support the work that progresses humanity is like thinking taxes are a scam because you don't recognize how much you actually benefit from taxes everyday.

      • Sharlin 52 minutes ago
        Replace the people with LLMs and we're well on our way to immanentizing the "Vile Offspring" of Stross's Accelerando.
    • post-it 50 minutes ago
      It seems like a lot of people enjoyed using the product. Isn't that value?
    • schleck8 2 hours ago
      This seems reductive. Character.ai has > 20 million monthly active users, and a lot of company valuation happens on the basis of user count (which is legitimate, that's not vaporware)
      • thor-rodrigues 1 hour ago
        I have the impression that if MAU by itself was sufficient, the company wouldn’t have had to file for bankruptcy.

        Obviously the company failed to convert its MAU into paying users, despite the fact the token costs greatly declined over the last years.

        • embedding-shape 41 minutes ago
          Why don't they just not count token costs at all (or any other cost-per-user) and only look at profits, like what Anthropic is doing to figure out if they're profitable?
      • PxldLtd 2 hours ago
        I disagree that it's reductive. If each user costs more in API tokens then your company isn't valuable. That's what everyone's been screaming from the rooftops about there being a bubble. We certainly use tons of AI at the company I work for, if we were paying full API prices then I would bet we'd be barely using it.
        • phillipcarter 24 minutes ago
          There's always enterprise wheeling and dealing to keep something discounted, but enterprises are absolutely paying API prices for tokens. For AI coding a least, the issue is more about attributing tokens to a real backlog (no leeching tokens for side projects) and keeping things from running away, both of which all the major AI coding platforms offer solutions for.
      • skeeter2020 2 minutes ago
        webvan and pets.com have entered the chat.
      • irl_zebra 1 hour ago
        As we saw after the hero Zelenskyy took down Yandex data centers, user count seems to be vaporware in many cases.
        • gaiagraphia 29 minutes ago
          I'm seeing this repeated a lot, but I'm rarely seeing the evidence to back it up. Presumably you're not speaking about Yandex's search engine crawlers here, right?

          In an internet full of metrics and graphs, it's odd that nobody's bringing anything to the table and is just repeating the meme. A bit bottish in itself, tbh.

          If it turned out "usercount was vapourware" due to 3 Russian data centres getting btfo, I think there'd have been a global financial crisis underway as we speak.

    • Ekaros 45 minutes ago
      But lot of numbers went up. And that mean lot of other numbers went up. Which means "wealth" for many went up. And they got bonuses paid.
    • roncesvalles 52 minutes ago
      A valuable company wasn't created in the end, but all kinds of value accreted out of this endeavor. The co-founders almost certainly walked away filthy rich. A few hundred people got 6-figure paychecks. A few early investors probably made a profit selling to greater fools.

      It is rumored that their last round valued them at $6B.

    • jansport123 1 hour ago
      the rich in society (corps, individuals) are so absurdly rich that they can keep throwing money till something sticks with almost 0 risk. If you believe AI is something civilizationally transformational which it is resonable to believe, then why not throw some money at it.
    • SpicyLemonZest 44 minutes ago
      The US just has a lot of venture capital money running around. It's common for biotech companies to raise about as much as Character.ai (although typically at lower valuations) and then never end up launching a successful product. From a societal perspective, it's valuable to be able to search the space of long shots; from a funder's perspective, the rewards of a good investment are high enough to pay for a lot of bad ones.
    • turing_complete 1 hour ago
      welcome to the world of VC startups
    • PxldLtd 2 hours ago
      Get with the program, numbers go up = ai valuable. Don't look any closer, details are the AI's problem now.
  • hypfer 25 minutes ago
    5 days ago:

    Character.AI chatbots encouraged users to cut and starve themselves, Kentucky alleges

    https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/characterai-chatbot...

    • donbox 11 minutes ago
      Agreed, IMHO this might be the real reason.
  • karahime 1 hour ago
    I think it's unfortunate that this is the case and that the service has been treated unfairly in many regards, but c.ai has faced specific problems that other businesses in the space don't, and the basic service isn't going to be marketed towards the more revenue-generating segments like enterprise without making something different out of it.
    • Schlagbohrer 33 minutes ago
      What were those specific problems they faced? I haven't paid any attention the market for cloud-based AI services by all these non-frontier companies, but I know it's a big market
      • mingus88 11 minutes ago
        I have never used it but the reputation it has in my bubble is that kids just used it to goon to Disney characters

        So the problem is your customers don’t pay for anything and your content is unlicensed

  • hisfraudulency 24 minutes ago
    It was always odd to me that talent like Noam Shazeer was working at a company with such a gimmicky premise to begin with.
    • donbox 12 minutes ago
      Well, he founded it!
    • miltonlost 10 minutes ago
      Sometimes talent decides to just make money and scam people into thinking talking with AI versions of celebrities as something worthwhile and positive for the world.
  • xg15 44 minutes ago
    And nothing of value was lost...

    (well, except investment money I guess)

  • paaloeye 1 hour ago
    Boom and bust cycle in startups is so short lately!
  • baggachipz 1 hour ago
    Is there this implosion's version of fuckedcompany.com?
  • rvz 27 minutes ago
    You realize that the investors already got their exit after Google bought off the founders and some of their staff?

    They knew it was going to $0, so the now the employees at this "employee owned" Character.ai got themselves scammed.

  • mschuster91 1 hour ago
    And so, it begins. The first domino has fallen.

    I'm gonna go, grab some popcorn and cry a few tears... tears of joy.

    • dumberquestions 42 minutes ago
      I had a conversation with someone some time in 2024 about Character Ai, wondering how something so obviously exploitative could exist, one data point to consider.
    • Krasnol 1 hour ago
      I don't know if there is something to be joyful about.

      AI won't go away, it will just end up being a monopoly.

      • FromTheFirstIn 1 hour ago
        A monopoly on not making money
      • ActionHank 38 minutes ago
        I don't think I know of anyone who denies the value of AI. I think 95% of the people who use it know that it is a tool and are angry / dismayed / confused about companies that are parading it around like a drop in replacement for anything.

        Photoshop is a tool, vs code is a tool, git is a tool, excel is a tool. No one expected these to autonomously generate money.

        People will be happy that the 5% who are delusional are going to be forced to reckon with the lies they've told themselves.

        As an aside, I believe there will be a huge surge in crypto hype again once these sorts of get rich quick with AI schemes dry up.

  • Soliddune16 1 hour ago
    [flagged]
  • jdw64 1 hour ago
    [dead]
  • jp0001 1 hour ago
    Good. Let this be a warning to shit companies with shit products and shit business models.
    • ramesh31 1 hour ago
      >"Let this be a warning to shit companies with shit products and shit business models."

      ...that you can be a shit company with a shit product and a shit business model and still make a shit ton of money and get hired by Google?

      • jp0001 1 hour ago
        It’s a good idea. The three things I said still stand.
  • 0gs 1 hour ago
    calling this a domino is pretty funny. "the first tiddlywink has spontaneously disintegrated"
    • lelanthran 1 hour ago
      It only takes a pebble to start a landslide.

      Most pebbles don't start landslides, but almost all landslides started with a pebble.

      Remember that almost all the "value" in AI companies right now is based on perception, not reported profits.

      • mingus88 8 minutes ago
        Pets.com became the emblem of the dot com bubble. Obviously there was a fortune to be made in online retail but they didn’t have it

        Will c.ai be the pets.com of this bubble?

      • m4rtink 1 hour ago
        So Character.ai is Jay Cooke & Company ? ;-)

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1873

        • 0gs 1 hour ago
          wow tontines are fascinating! fwiw, i just meant that c.ai was a domino before it got hollowed out by an acquipoach
    • freecodeio 9 minutes ago
      I mean a famous AI company filing for bankrupcy might get some investors to hold their breath, given how also OpenAI and Anthropic aren't profitable.
    • aardv44rk 1 hour ago
      [dead]