> We will support the Deno runtime for another year with monthly releases containing bug fixes and security updates. After that year we will end our development of the Deno runtime. Deno will remain open source, and we welcome others who want to continue its development.
So unless someone else picks up development, Deno will no longer be supported.
This is a wild detail to just bury at the bottom. So many companies went all-in on Deno in recent years. Some even did major migrations off Node.js. Sucks for them I guess, but that's always the risk in chasing the shiny new thing over sticking to the old and dependable.
I was really surprised that cloudflare was acquiring deno to be honest, I have written about this here before, Deno was always sort of dead to me due to how little they cared for nodejs compat. It was refreshing to see bun care a lot about it (well, now its on a different path in other ways).
Then I read that paragraph, and it made more sense that they're acquihiring + killing.
Fuck me! We’re going to have to start our migration as soon as possible. I knew we were in a precarious spot after the layoffs, but this is a truly sad outcome.
Right up until the day the founder gets bored and leaves Anthropic, or some middle manager does a reorg and the project isn't important to them anymore.
So are racial slurs or various things we can call you and your family. It’s never “just a word.”
Or we can go the other direction: if it’s “just a word” then it clearly means very little to you and a lot to somebody else, so why don’t you just be respectful and not use it? My parents don’t like cursing when I’m at their house, so I watch my mouth out of respect. I don’t demand that they make me agree with them beforehand. It’s just the right thing to do. Treat people with respect.
Why would you care if a random stranger on the internet says a word that you have deemed a no-no? Especially when the word has nothing to do with you - that looks more like looking for things to be offended by.
“Go back to Reddit” is the exact kind of comment the guidelines here explicitly ask people not to make. Your account isn’t that old by the way, so maybe don’t get on a high horse about forum culture.
Whining about “PC culture” is also pretty stale if you’re going to accuse this guy of living like it’s 2020. Though I don’t see what’s so offensive about telling people to treat each other with respect and to not use clearly harmful, othering language that trivializes mental health issues.
I have no idea anymore what is happening, and none of the blogposts seem to explain that either. So, if I am to start a new JS or TypeScript project or whatever, what should I choose and why? One runtime used a lot of tokens to rewrite Zig project, one was already Rust, one bought, one rewritten in Go, what is going on?
I feel it leaves a bitter flavor how Ryan Dahl pushed so hard for Deno and Deno Deploy for years, just to let them die within 1 year and 6 months respectively.
Thankfully I don't have any codebases that heavily use Deno features, otherwise this would be a steep curve now.
I’m happy if this means Deno is able to get a second impulse. I use Deno daily and while it’s true that it’s in this weird position where it’s not sexy like bun or enterprise-y like node, it has a great developer experience. a no-surprises runtime that does a lot of interesting things the right way (like compile to desktop to a browser-less webgpu runtime), the vscode extension is flawless and overall the perfect balance of batteries included without bloat.
of course i’m only talking about deno, the technology not deno, the cloud service.
> I’m happy if this means Deno is able to get a second impulse
Bad news, sorry, the article says:
> We will support the Deno runtime for another year with monthly releases containing bug fixes and security updates. After that year we will end our development of the Deno runtime.
Sounds like Celld will live on within workerd, Deno is over.
> I’m happy if this means Deno is able to get a second impulse.
From TFA: We will support the Deno runtime for another year with monthly releases containing bug fixes and security updates. After that year we will end our development of the Deno runtime.
TL;DR: Ryan and co. will be merging celld with workerd to create one first-class open source self-hostable runtime for Workers and Durable Objects. In the post I explain in the post why, contrary to what you might think, this is good business for Cloudflare and we're very excited about it.
I do appreciate that it's not explicitly anti-competitive, but as a biochemist who spent a lot of time thinking about living systems, I am a bit concerned about a budding ecology that has perhaps collapsed <3
But I do have a strangely high trust in the individuals involved (you, Ryan, Sunil, others), even though I am a bit perplexed by CloudFlare's incentives or economics
Which is to say: I am choosing to be optimistic :)
Caveat, am commenting before reading, mind you -- just my general reaction to mergers in a world that never cleaves :)
EDIT: though this has also probably deflated a lot of the good-faith conversations I was having with gov-adjacent Europeans about celld being a boon for the moment of heightened European sovereignty, where EU data residency isn't necessarily considered enough distance anymore.
I'm very surprised they are not running with the runtime. That seemed like Deno's secret sauce? The rest of it is very aligned with Cloudflare already, deploy, kv, workers, etc seems like the lower hanging fruit.
Congrats. But also terrible news for the ecosystem; this project was a bit doomed from the start, and they acknowledge it multiple times (implicitly), but nice to have competition, I guess.
Ultimately I only trust Node.js to succeed. Bun being too deep into "shipping anything that increases usage".
> We will support the Deno runtime for another year with monthly releases containing bug fixes and security updates. After that year we will end our development of the Deno runtime.
So both major (and the only meaningful) possible Node alternatives have been absorbed into proprietary monoliths in the last year. We all know how well the Joyent years went, RIP to open source innovation at this point.
No if that were true they wouldn't be stopping development of Deno, which as it stands sits in the best position for codemode given it's granular sandboxing.
No people on the Boards of both companies? Sorry for being cynical. Seen so much funny stuff in this industry. Good for Deno. Better choice given the talent behind it than Bun, IMHO.
> We will support the Deno runtime for another year with monthly releases containing bug fixes and security updates. After that year we will end our development of the Deno runtime. Deno will remain open source, and we welcome others who want to continue its development.
So Deno is going to be unsupported and will no longer be maintained and will be discontinued.
It looks like "written in Rust" is not enough for a selling point and lost out to the fierce competition against Bun.
I'd guess Deno failed because of the original decision of not supporting node_modules, instead went with a different way of handling dependencies. Else the native typescript support would most likely had pushed them to bigger success past nodejs.
Though nodejs was even then quite solid in it's position, so maybe it would not have made a difference.
Deno wasn't doing well and was repeatedly outperformed in downloads and raw performance when Bun was written in Zig, and even before Bun got acquired by Anthropic.
My point is, even if Bun stayed on Zig, Deno still struggled to compete regardless of the language used.
As a bystander, I'm excited by this. I don't know what it'll be, but I have a sense some interesting, powerful, and secure new ways of shipping code could come from this marriage...
So unless someone else picks up development, Deno will no longer be supported.
Then I read that paragraph, and it made more sense that they're acquihiring + killing.
For my projects, I am used to maintaining package manager configuration, bundlers, linters etc.
So I never had much interest in looking into benefits of Deno or bun.
From what is likely going to happen is that Deno will be donated to the Linux Foundation to avoid this.
Or we can go the other direction: if it’s “just a word” then it clearly means very little to you and a lot to somebody else, so why don’t you just be respectful and not use it? My parents don’t like cursing when I’m at their house, so I watch my mouth out of respect. I don’t demand that they make me agree with them beforehand. It’s just the right thing to do. Treat people with respect.
Whining about “PC culture” is also pretty stale if you’re going to accuse this guy of living like it’s 2020. Though I don’t see what’s so offensive about telling people to treat each other with respect and to not use clearly harmful, othering language that trivializes mental health issues.
of course i’m only talking about deno, the technology not deno, the cloud service.
Bad news, sorry, the article says:
> We will support the Deno runtime for another year with monthly releases containing bug fixes and security updates. After that year we will end our development of the Deno runtime.
Sounds like Celld will live on within workerd, Deno is over.
From TFA: We will support the Deno runtime for another year with monthly releases containing bug fixes and security updates. After that year we will end our development of the Deno runtime.
Finally, the next step of forking Node is up for grabs:
Node > Deno > Done (anyone?)
edit: my reaction was too soon, it seems like they will be explicitly working on making workerd an open source self hostable runtime
https://blog.cloudflare.com/deno-joins-cloudflare/
TL;DR: Ryan and co. will be merging celld with workerd to create one first-class open source self-hostable runtime for Workers and Durable Objects. In the post I explain in the post why, contrary to what you might think, this is good business for Cloudflare and we're very excited about it.
But I do have a strangely high trust in the individuals involved (you, Ryan, Sunil, others), even though I am a bit perplexed by CloudFlare's incentives or economics
Which is to say: I am choosing to be optimistic :)
Caveat, am commenting before reading, mind you -- just my general reaction to mergers in a world that never cleaves :)
EDIT: though this has also probably deflated a lot of the good-faith conversations I was having with gov-adjacent Europeans about celld being a boon for the moment of heightened European sovereignty, where EU data residency isn't necessarily considered enough distance anymore.
Most of us are here because we’re curious what it means for Deno specifically and FOSS TypeScript runtimes in general, since Bun was also acquired.
Ultimately I only trust Node.js to succeed. Bun being too deep into "shipping anything that increases usage".
Extremely disappointing...
[0] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1477333/000119312519...
They would rather have Deno pursue an acquisition instead of shutting down and losing their investment.
The only questionable detail about this announcement is it was for an undisclosed amount. Make of that what you will.
So Deno is going to be unsupported and will no longer be maintained and will be discontinued.
It looks like "written in Rust" is not enough for a selling point and lost out to the fierce competition against Bun.
Though nodejs was even then quite solid in it's position, so maybe it would not have made a difference.
My point is, even if Bun stayed on Zig, Deno still struggled to compete regardless of the language used.