Creatine uptake enhances antitumor immunity

(cell.com)

72 points | by lormayna 1 hour ago

11 comments

  • nsbk 16 minutes ago
    This is such a crazy substance. I'm 43 and I feel like I have more energy than I have ever had before. I started taking it during recovery from a bad ankle fracture since it helps building muscle mass. Once the ankle was better I took up CrossFit, and kept on taking creatine because why not, it helps replenish ATP so I will be able to give the extra-push when working out, I thought.

    What is blowing my mind though is that at $dayjob my team is going through a crazy crunch to deliver a very strategic project and some of us are pushing 10-12h days often. I'm in hour 12 today for the second day in a row, and my head is not tired at all. Turns out the brain also uses a lot of ATP too, specially during demanding cognitive tasks so I guess it is creatine that is keeping the engine running smoothly even after so many hours.

    I will like once every week or two have a poor night sleep. These days I take twice the dose and I don't feel like I'm sleep deprived at all. Feels like cheating! And apparently no side effects at all so far. Well, maybe I'm working too much.

    • lr4444lr 0 minutes ago
      Do you take the standard 5g or something else? What's your weight?
    • torben-friis 9 minutes ago
      Mind that, while the "creatine high dose to fight drowsiness" hack works and has no side effects (other than upset stomachs), the lost sleep still does it thing. You don't notice day to day but it will catch up to you eventually in many bad ways.
    • suriyaG 12 minutes ago
      is it possible that this is the bump due to your workouts and not plainly creatine ?

      I take creatine daily but when I'm working out more than a couple of weeks, i feel much better than on weeks when I skip working out.

      • nsbk 5 minutes ago
        The overall fitness is going to definitely have a positive effect on the perceived energy levels (my Vo2 max is at its highest ever). On the other hand, I have been very fit at other times in my life but have never experienced this "my head can just go on" feeling before. I used to take conscious breaks, do NSDR between meetings and other energy-replenishing tricks because I __needed__ them. It feels like now I don't
      • usern20260720 11 minutes ago
        great question. Can I take creatine and skip the workout hassle?
        • michelb 5 minutes ago
          For me, just creatine doesn’t seem to do a whole lot. But heavy workouts (with or without creatine), energize me enormously.
  • rgbrgb 34 minutes ago
    worth noting that there’s evidence both ways… tumor cells may like it too:

    - Loo et al. 2015 found color cancer cells can use it as fuel and blocking the creatine cut metastasis in mice [0]

    - zhang et al 20921 found it promoting mouse colon and breast cancer models [1]

    not an expert in any way, but i’m guessing it depends on cancer type and there doesn’t seem to be human data either way.

    [0]: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25601461/

    [1]: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cmet.2021.03.009

  • robotsquidward 46 minutes ago
    - Enhances ANTI-tumor... sounds good - ANTI-tumor immunity... sounds bad? - Read first few paragraphs as a typical medical rube, got nowhere

    So, creatine = good?

    • dessimus 23 minutes ago
      "But you get your choice of toppings." "That's good!" "The toppings contain potassium benzoate... ...that's bad."
    • el_benhameen 40 minutes ago
      Don’t worry, if you aren’t confused enough there’s also this to send you through another cycle! https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33811821/
    • readthenotes1 35 minutes ago
      Original title may be clearer?

      Creatine uptake promotes dendritic cell activation and enhances antitumor immunity

      • lormayna 28 minutes ago
        Original title is too long, I had to shorten it
    • HedonicEscal8r 33 minutes ago
      "Immunity" = "immune system activity." "Anti-tumor immunity" = "immune system activity against tumors."
    • gbil 42 minutes ago
      I mean the summary ends with pretty clear message

      > …and support the use of creatine supplementation as a strategy to augment DC-based cancer immunotherapy.

      So it seems that from this research the outcome is indeed creatine = good

    • adammarples 29 minutes ago
      Anti-missile shielding
  • fy20 39 minutes ago
    Note that they gave the mice 10mg per day, which is around 3g per day for a 70kg human - i.e. a normal dose.
  • ThouYS 30 minutes ago
    The whole creatine craze reminds me of Vitamin D a couple of years ago. Which also sounded harmless, but can go very wrong if not careful
    • BugsJustFindMe 28 minutes ago
      > but can go very wrong if not careful

      This is vague and doesn't explain anything. Can you share any references that communicate what you're thinking about?

      • nkozyra 26 minutes ago
        They're talking about vitamin D, which accumulates due to being fat soluble and is indeed toxic at a certain level[1]

        It became something of a panacea nutrient, recently around COVID.

        1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D_toxicity

        • nomel 18 minutes ago
          And, if you drink a glass of carrot juice a day, you'll receive toxic levels of vitamin A!

          ~40% of people don't get enough vitamin D [1]. It's not useful to categorize it as some trend, based on people just not following general recommended dosing (with more precise dosing depending entirely on personal sun exposure and skin color).

          [1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9573946/

        • kenhwang 15 minutes ago
          My doctor added vitamin D test to his patients recurring blood work since the start of COVID, and found out just about all his patients was deficient or near it.

          If you don't have a primarily fish based diet or spend hours under direct overhead sunlight every day without a shirt on, you're probably deficient as well.

        • drop_star 21 minutes ago
          I've also heard about it 'hardening' in the bloodstream and that you should really be taking it with K2 as well. This is anecdotal so someone please do more research than basing anything from this comment
    • tedggh 7 minutes ago
      You definitely want to take breaks from Creatine. It’s not something people should take year around.
    • nkozyra 27 minutes ago
      Unless you have specific issues, creatine is pretty easily excreted in excess, unlike fat-soluble vitamin D.

      This doesn't mean you can just pound it, but for the most part it just becomes waste product.

  • MrJagil 34 minutes ago
    Creatine related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48346947

    (I regret posting that blog post, but the study is interesting)

  • ortusdux 40 minutes ago
    Are there risks to creatine?
    • BunsanSpace 32 minutes ago
      Generally no, it's expensively studied and has had daily consumption to be safe for upto 5 years at least (studies haven't generally gone longer).

      That being said some people do have adverse effects to supplementation, e.g. excessive water retention, bloating, stomach discomfort, &c.

      So try it, if you have a bad reaction stop.

    • ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 33 minutes ago
    • luke5441 34 minutes ago
      I get severe cramping from it (reproducible). All I can find are papers about this being a myth and some reddit threads about other people having this.
      • kenhwang 23 minutes ago
        I get it too if I don't drink a lot more water. So did many people on my sports team.

        Creatine binds to water (making less water available to your muscles) and allows your muscles to work harder (which makes them need more water). So if you're not drinking a lot more water when you're taking creatine, you will get cramps from either dehydration and/or muscle overuse.

        But once you're past the loading phase for creatine and getting sufficient hydration, it's supposed to lessen cramps because the water bound to creatine also becomes available for use again as the creatine is used by the body.

        • kelseyfrog 10 minutes ago
          How much water can 3g of creatine bind to? Is it like orbeez?
      • er4hn 26 minutes ago
        I get this unless I drink a lot of water. About 48 fl oz seems to be the right amount for 10g creatine. Sometimes this needs to be combined with a light snack, like a handful of nuts.
      • andy_ppp 29 minutes ago
        Did you try different sources I do not trust some of the stuff out there and often wonder if these supplements aren’t just generic white powder…
    • HedonicEscal8r 34 minutes ago
      Essentially none. Creatine supplementation is a good idea for most people, especially vegans/vegetarians.
      • flossly 32 minutes ago
        Why especially those?
        • dgacmu 23 minutes ago
          Your body can synthesize creatine, so it's not essential, but meat is a source of exogenous creatine and eating it results in higher stored creatine levels, which is slightly good for muscle power endurance in the ~5-15 second effort range. Supplementing produces slightly higher relative improvements in creatine levels in vegetarians and vegans than it does in people who eat meat.
        • eknkc 29 minutes ago
          Nobody gets fired for supplementing vegans.
        • iamdev 26 minutes ago
          Because meat is the best source of creatine from diet.
        • hobo123 28 minutes ago
          Because they lack all kinds of substances that meateaters get plenty of.
        • hagbard_c 26 minutes ago
          Well, if vegetarians and those of the Vegan religion don't get enough creatine it is most likely related to them not partaking of an important source of the substance: meat.
        • unethical_ban 28 minutes ago
          Not vouching for creatine, but in general, humans get some vital nutrients from animal consumption. Vegans have to take some B-vitamins for best health due to what they don't get from meat. I assume creatine is the same.
    • asdff 35 minutes ago
      It can make you hold more water weight so you should drink more water in response.
    • ddoolin 23 minutes ago
      Potentially lots poopies.
    • dilyevsky 33 minutes ago
      Worse beach looks
      • nkozyra 24 minutes ago
        Creatine causes intramuscular water increases, not subcutaneous. Doesn't actually have a negative impact here.
    • colechristensen 34 minutes ago
      Excessively large doses make your stomach and perhaps your kidneys unhappy and supplements being lightly regulated there may be purity issues where the risk is what else is in it.

      But it's pretty safe at recommended doses.

    • pow_ext 35 minutes ago
      None
  • EA-3167 41 minutes ago
    Please remember that this is a study not the ads and pop-sci articles usually posted here. That means it’s meant to elucidate at most some biological pathways and not to present an overall recommendation. Maybe creatine has strong anti-tumor activity through one pathway and strongly tumor-promoting impacts elsewhere.

    Please… just read it as the isolated and interesting insight into biology that it is. It’s a fascinating in vitro result that shows a potentially important role for creatinine in a certain immune response.

  • deadbabe 47 minutes ago
    There’s just so much evidence that creatine is something people should take daily, and now this?
  • dyauspitr 31 minutes ago
    So what’s the latest? That everyone should take creatine and GLP-1s?
    • solumos 29 minutes ago
      Adverse side effects of creatine are generally less severe than GLP-1s
    • creaturemachine 24 minutes ago
      With a peptide chaser.
      • dyauspitr 18 minutes ago
        I wasn’t being facetious. I seriously am asking if everyone should actually take creatinine and GLP-1.
        • steinvakt2 7 minutes ago
          Any reason someone at a healthy BMI should take GLP-1?
  • gkhartman 42 minutes ago
    ...in mice.
    • asdff 29 minutes ago
      As it turns out, no one lets you generate mutant human embryos with deficient creatine receptors, grow them up into adult humans, inject them with melanoma, euthanize them and harvest the tumor cell mass and bone marrow for analysis.
    • gbil 41 minutes ago
      Did you read it at all?

      > Notably, creatine uptake similarly boosted the activation and immunostimulatory function of human monocyte-derived DCs.

      • gkhartman 9 minutes ago
        Fair. Missed that bit tbh.
    • embedding-shape 42 minutes ago
      Imagine how healthy mice in general could live, if they were able to read all these research papers about themselves.
      • zafka 31 minutes ago
        Now I am imagining a 501-C where school children are encouraged to read studies to mice. Children get better at reading technical papers, mice learn more about their options! Win Win!
      • hagbard_c 23 minutes ago
        They already do in their own dimension, all that dying and running down the wrong track in those mazes is just to befuddle us silly hominids.

        Source: https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Mice

      • rzzzt 28 minutes ago
        I, for one, welcome our future inmice overlords.