As a Canadian, I find this unbelievably good news. Canada, the EU, and other middle powers need to unite. Stronger together, while preserving what makes each country unique.
Yeah, I don’t understand why people have a problem with this. I think it should basically always be true between peer nations that there is free movement and trade.
They are currently targeting civilian populations there by weaponizing access to necessities. They have intentionally created multiple humanitarian crises, then rerouted food and energy imports through Florida companies for private benefit.
This is a long way of asking: Can the US west coast become an associate EU member too? Here in California, the Sierra Nevada and deserts of the southwest are already 99% of the wall we’d need to protect our border from maga zealots.
Carney has extremely strong support amongst the general public in Canada which hasn't been the case for the Canadian PM over the past 20+ years.
158 Canadian soldiers died defending the United States at the US's request after 9/11. Canadian fighter jets helped to patrol the skies in the US at the US's request after 9/11.
The insults coming from the US Secretary of Defence and President are not unnoticed. They are logged and remembered.
If that is so onerous, multiple EU countries should get nuclear missiles and make an EU NATO. But you don't want that. You want the dollar propped up irrationally by your military promises and you want NATO and non-NATO proxies against Russia ans China.
The promises incidentally fail yet again in Iran, where the Saudis already make other treaties with Turkey and Pakistan.
> 158 Canadian soldiers died defending the United States at the US's request after 9/11. Canadian fighter jets helped to patrol the skies in the US at the US's request after 9/11.
Bad idea. Canada (as well as all other nations) should let the US fight and lose its wars by itself.
Research the "Monroe doctrine"... by which I mean, don't just look up a one paragraph summary, spend a bit of time with it. A few pages of text at least. Ideally in a modern formulation you should encounter the term "World Island" without having directly searched for it and how the modern iteration of the Monroe doctrine is a reaction to that in a way that the original didn't have to contend with.
I'm not doing advocacy here, I'm giving pointers on how to come to a deeper understanding of what is going on.
It is also important to understand that the EU is directly attacking this doctrine with this proposal. You are free to agree with the EU. Again, I'm just giving something to guide people to a deeper understanding of what is going on beyond the surface level playground politics of it all. There's more going on than that.
Agreed, and the possibility of visa free travel to the EU, plus the removal of live/work barriers is appealing. The USA really comes off as the spurned ex that calls you drunk in the middle of the night.
USA has always been very aggressive about territory and hostile to Europe in the Americas. The Canada vs UK vs EU relationship seems more interesting to me.
A whole lot of Trump's psychology has always been "it's your fault I hurt you" for the longest time — it's a very clear undercurrent in how he treated his first wife.
Fortunately the US already fails in its first special military operation in Iran, so it cannot launch a second one in Canada to protect the English speaking population in Canada.
This comment[0] on HN from a while back marks the parallels between the two situations very clearly.
It's very frustrating talking about this subject with Americans online[1]. In general they seem to have blinders on regarding the magnitude of the consequences of their democratic choice in leadership.
I get a sense that a feeling of learned helplessness has beset the American people and that they're not able to imagine a world of agency and action against authoritarianism.
I don't know what can shake them out of their torpor, but I do know that the longer they take to wake up the higher the price of action will be.
> So if Canada tries to make friends with anyone other than the US, it's a hostile act?
I don't think anyone really says it's an hostile act but both countries, Canada and the US will have to decide what it means for their ongoing relationship.
Canada is free to get closer to Europe and the US is free to be displeased about it.
Maybe it works out well for Canada or maybe it doesn't.
> Makes it all the more obvious that USA is Canada's abusive partner
Why anthropomorphize geopolitics?
This is just just a big fish throwing its weight around like all big fishes do. Russia does it with its neighbors, China does it as well and India and Europe are not shy about it either.
It's just the name of the game and its been happening since the dawn of time.
Some states use force, others bribe or cajole but in the end they all try to influence their neighbors in a way that suits their interests especially if these neighbors are smaller in terms of population/economy/military etc...
The fact that so many people are shocked by such news these days is because everyone drank the cool aid of the End of History and forgot that spheres of influence still exists and that the rule of law was nothing more than gentleman's agreement that could be thrown out of the window at a moment's notice without second thoughts.
Trump has already been threatening Canada and EU at various times already. Why should they assume a) this will be any different b) he'll stop if they do what he wants?
That doesn't really matter. What matters is that he commands the most powerful (probably?) offensive force on the planet and has already shown that he is more than willing to use it to achieve is nonsense objectives.
Personally, I take everything he says and does seriously. I advise non-citizens visiting to turn their social media to private and bring a burner phone to immigration checkpoints. For citizens, turning off your phone should be enough.
It’s a win-win scenario for wealthy people. Poor people always get screwed in any kind of free trade deal, since prices of goods always rise to the highest possible point in the entire free trade zone.
That is just not true. FTAs lower trade barriers on imported goods, leading to consumer welfare gains from increase in product variety, better quality products and lower prices for existing products.
Can the blue states of USA become associate members too? He has declared that the blue states are the "enemy from within" and may launch the military against us soon.
Would it be possible to offer anything more substantive? For example:
1) Why would none of the ~20-25 blue states want to join the EU? Why would it be preferable for the big ones to go it alone in an increasingly fractious world?
2) In what way does the EU not offer much? If this is the case, how did they end up with 28 members joining, another 5 or so waiting to do so, and only 1 ever leaving?
The point isn't about being pro/negative the EU, it's about providing something thoughtful, as opposed to just throwing out your opinions.
Unfortunately, the Constitution (Article 1 Section 10) forbids states from entering into alliances and treaties with other countries, or with one another, without the explicit permission of Congress.
The Prime Minister can’t seem to get his story straight about the “associate membership,” “unique alliance,” or whatever else he is negotiating with the EU.
Conservatives are clear: we support the decades-old free trade & NATO defence alliance with Europe.
But no EU taxes, no EU laws, and no EU open-border immigration policies should be imposed on Canadians.
Canada must be independent and sovereign. Period.
This is the same PP that grasped defeat in the face of victory, and is continually losing support, relegating himself to the same position of the Reform party that it was in the 90's. The same Polly that lost his riding last election, and had to have one handed to him on a silver spoon. I would take his opinion with a grain of salt.
It doesn't seem like anyone knows what it is yet since it's a new thing. But free movement of people for work is mentioned in almost every article about it.
Classic Conservative move of building a strawman and arguing against it. None of these deals would involve taxes, EU "laws" (whatever that means) or border agreements. He's using the boogeyman of "ew brown people" to scare his base.
Apparently, even Canadian conservatives are happy to grovel at the feet of the Burger Reich and their supreme leader.
He's not wrong. I have a suspicion this EU idea is a way to backdoor immigration increases - something the Trudeau government was very keen on but was scaled back by Carney. Largely because immigration has become a hot-button issue in Canada and was partly responsible for Polilievre's popularity last election. Joining a treaty where another governing body would set the criteria for immigration and Canada just has to accept it due to freedom of movement within the EU is one way to route around the whole thing politically and make it much harder to change in the future.
If this is the motivation, it's a grossly undemocratic move.
I don't get how folks who hyperventilate about Trump being a threat to democracy can look at stuff like this and cheer.
I think you'll find most Albertans would welcome international trade diversity, and if anything is theatre, it's the referendum. "Secessionists" are a significant minority, and even most of those don't actually want to secede, they just don't like the national government. "Send a message to Ottawa" is the motto.
Carney has a majority in Parliament, he can do this pretty much unilaterally if he wants. And a straw poll at the after-beer from band last night had everybody enthusiastic about the prospect.
As for the secession referendum, it's currently polling at 20-30% and it's not a real referendum, its a referendum to hold a referendum.
Quebec is also about to have a provincial election where separatism, and everyone's relationship to it, is the main argument.
Many people on both sides of the Atlantic wrongly think Quebec is more compatible with Europe than the rest of Canada because they speak French, but almost the exact things Quebec separatists care most about are the things the EU wouldn't let them control.
Sort of. The referendum is unpopular and is non-binding, actually a question about whether to have a referendum. Its widely seen as a political maneuver by AB to extract pipeline concessions.
Giving Alberta a market where they can sell LNG might get them on board, but this would also require a bunch of new infrastructure (pipelines? ports?) that I suspect the Canadian government will not want built.
It would be lovely to get Europe off of Russian energy imports.
Trips to Canada have always left a bad taste in my mouth, but they've always been to Ontario, Quebec. I've been wondering if I'd like the people in Alberta better.
It's something many Canadians don't want to accept, but too much of their tourist facing industry is setup to exploit and frankly con Americans.
I recall on my first trip here ending up in hospital, being mistaken for an American and shown one price list, only for my insurance company to get on the phone and promptly a new price list appeared and a lot of "We're sorry we thought you were American" from the staff.
And prior to the mobile web dealing with Ontario hotels was like haggling in a Turkish bazaar with an obnoxious layer of passive aggression on top.
According to the FT, Von der Leyen didn't really get the OK from member states before coming up with this. Let's see what happens in practice, the trade agreement from 2017 hasn't even been ratified yet.
Without commenting on the EU, particularly, I would be concerned if I were a Canadian about Carney's commitment to globalism when the degenerate cases have become so common.
It's a weird two-front war where people tend to answer the social question and ignore the economic one, but the economic question has not done any favors to the EU or the US for that matter
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/sep/17/trump-marco-...
They are currently targeting civilian populations there by weaponizing access to necessities. They have intentionally created multiple humanitarian crises, then rerouted food and energy imports through Florida companies for private benefit.
This is a long way of asking: Can the US west coast become an associate EU member too? Here in California, the Sierra Nevada and deserts of the southwest are already 99% of the wall we’d need to protect our border from maga zealots.
So if Canada tries to make friends with anyone other than the US, it's a hostile act?
Makes it all the more obvious that USA is Canada's abusive partner, that they should have broken up with a long time ago.
158 Canadian soldiers died defending the United States at the US's request after 9/11. Canadian fighter jets helped to patrol the skies in the US at the US's request after 9/11.
The insults coming from the US Secretary of Defence and President are not unnoticed. They are logged and remembered.
This has to be satire surely.
We're gonna need that sense of humor as the climate shit hits the fan.
If that is so onerous, multiple EU countries should get nuclear missiles and make an EU NATO. But you don't want that. You want the dollar propped up irrationally by your military promises and you want NATO and non-NATO proxies against Russia ans China.
The promises incidentally fail yet again in Iran, where the Saudis already make other treaties with Turkey and Pakistan.
Bad idea. Canada (as well as all other nations) should let the US fight and lose its wars by itself.
I'm not doing advocacy here, I'm giving pointers on how to come to a deeper understanding of what is going on.
It is also important to understand that the EU is directly attacking this doctrine with this proposal. You are free to agree with the EU. Again, I'm just giving something to guide people to a deeper understanding of what is going on beyond the surface level playground politics of it all. There's more going on than that.
I believe the terms in human relationships are coercive control and social isolation.
If your ex starts dating your best friend directly after breakup, would you consider it a hostile act?
Canada is bound to look for new trade opportunities in the face of that.
You make a deal with Trump, it's always worse than what you had previously.
Then, no mater what you do, he breaks the deal 3 months later with some kind of implied military threat if you complain.
A whole lot of Trump's psychology has always been "it's your fault I hurt you" for the longest time — it's a very clear undercurrent in how he treated his first wife.
He's an abuser. And now so is the USA.
It's very frustrating talking about this subject with Americans online[1]. In general they seem to have blinders on regarding the magnitude of the consequences of their democratic choice in leadership.
I get a sense that a feeling of learned helplessness has beset the American people and that they're not able to imagine a world of agency and action against authoritarianism.
I don't know what can shake them out of their torpor, but I do know that the longer they take to wake up the higher the price of action will be.
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43485649#43487443
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49403201
I don't think anyone really says it's an hostile act but both countries, Canada and the US will have to decide what it means for their ongoing relationship.
Canada is free to get closer to Europe and the US is free to be displeased about it.
Maybe it works out well for Canada or maybe it doesn't.
> Makes it all the more obvious that USA is Canada's abusive partner
Why anthropomorphize geopolitics?
This is just just a big fish throwing its weight around like all big fishes do. Russia does it with its neighbors, China does it as well and India and Europe are not shy about it either.
It's just the name of the game and its been happening since the dawn of time.
Some states use force, others bribe or cajole but in the end they all try to influence their neighbors in a way that suits their interests especially if these neighbors are smaller in terms of population/economy/military etc...
The fact that so many people are shocked by such news these days is because everyone drank the cool aid of the End of History and forgot that spheres of influence still exists and that the rule of law was nothing more than gentleman's agreement that could be thrown out of the window at a moment's notice without second thoughts.
https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraines-future-in-nato-prec...
edit since I guess the timestamp isn't visible to everyone: Jul 12, 2023, 5:56 PM GMT+2
There's a lawsuit [1] on the way related to the Epstein files so this Canada-EU topic gives Trump the perfect opportunity to divert the attention.
[1] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2026/09/lawsuit-trump-do...
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/topics/en/article/20161014STO...
Please, I live in Spain. I know what getting screwed with prices looks like.
https://www.npr.org/2025/09/30/nx-s1-5557232/hegseth-general...
1) Why would none of the ~20-25 blue states want to join the EU? Why would it be preferable for the big ones to go it alone in an increasingly fractious world?
2) In what way does the EU not offer much? If this is the case, how did they end up with 28 members joining, another 5 or so waiting to do so, and only 1 ever leaving?
The point isn't about being pro/negative the EU, it's about providing something thoughtful, as opposed to just throwing out your opinions.
what's that?
Not sure what's meant by that... People won't start swimming over the atlantic ocean. And flights to Canada aren't really cheap, by any means.
Apparently, even Canadian conservatives are happy to grovel at the feet of the Burger Reich and their supreme leader.
If this is the motivation, it's a grossly undemocratic move.
I don't get how folks who hyperventilate about Trump being a threat to democracy can look at stuff like this and cheer.
The chances of Canada getting everyone to go along with this are close to zero. (As are the chances of Alberta actually seceding).
It's just political theater
As for the secession referendum, it's currently polling at 20-30% and it's not a real referendum, its a referendum to hold a referendum.
Many people on both sides of the Atlantic wrongly think Quebec is more compatible with Europe than the rest of Canada because they speak French, but almost the exact things Quebec separatists care most about are the things the EU wouldn't let them control.
It would be lovely to get Europe off of Russian energy imports.
Do you think the referendum in question is not a political theater?
I don't know much, but it stands to me that the EU association is magnitudes more serious.
Alberta selling oil to USA is, by itself, like 20% of Canada's entire GDP.
And 70% of all other exports go to USA too. So yeah it is mostly just theater because there's a loud mouth idiot in the White house.
They're doing some lip-service and just hoping it will blow over when Trump is gone.
wow, no, it's not "like 20%" at all. not even close.
the entire oil and natural gas industry was 3.8% of canada's GDP in 2025.
how did you even come up with that number?
I recall on my first trip here ending up in hospital, being mistaken for an American and shown one price list, only for my insurance company to get on the phone and promptly a new price list appeared and a lot of "We're sorry we thought you were American" from the staff.
And prior to the mobile web dealing with Ontario hotels was like haggling in a Turkish bazaar with an obnoxious layer of passive aggression on top.
It's a weird two-front war where people tend to answer the social question and ignore the economic one, but the economic question has not done any favors to the EU or the US for that matter
Self-isolation (whether a nation or a person) is not a good solution to hypothetical bad actors. Society is built on cooperation and trust
Who are the adversaries?