How to write English prose (2023)

(thelampmagazine.com)

121 points | by geneticdrifts 17 hours ago

28 comments

  • GCA10 16 hours ago
    Kept out of sight in this rogue essay is the classic question: Who's your audience?

    If you're writing for yourself (and maybe a very small number of equally erudite readers) cut loose! Embrace "anfractuous density and heedless flamboyance." But if you're trying to change people's minds, or share knowledge widely, everything in this essay is defiantly at odds with what's necessary to get the rest of the world to pay attention.

    • scandox 15 hours ago
      What's interesting to me is that the examples he gives are beautiful because of their sincerity. Even if there is artifice, or they're being formal or playful, their style reflects their reading, their shared culture and of course as you say their audience - which I think for them was a very small elite.

      Anyone who writes in a flamboyant style now - as the essay's author does - necessarily comes across as a kind of pastiche. There is something camp or affected about it. Maybe that can change. Maybe a new flamboyance can develop. But I think his antiquated style of flamboyance is unlikely to come back to real life.

      • gerdesj 10 hours ago
        Take a copy of "Usage and Abusage" and blend with Lord Byron after applying suitable libations; toss in the bear for body. Season to taste with the darker dictionary (the parts chained down to protect the reader). Simmer over a fire of coked Latin and Greek primers, scented with a whiff of lilac.

        Serve in a curiously beige vessel.

      • dofm 7 hours ago
        > Anyone who writes in a flamboyant style now - as the essay's author does - necessarily comes across as a kind of pastiche. There is something camp or affected about it

        Necessarily? Not at all. I am not sure where “camp” or “affected” come into it. I am a nerdy English bloke and I suppose Americans, Canadians and Australians etc., will assume I am camp (which troubles me not one bit) so I may be unable to accurately judge, but I didn’t get either from this. It reminded me more of Fry or Lewis than Self, put it that way.

    • dofm 8 hours ago
      I fully disagree. It is immensely readable (even if you might want an inline dictionary, something afforded by every contemporary operating system and eBook reader).

      I think that in 2026, if you really want someone to read something, there should be some evidence that you wrote it. That means being brave and using your powers, whether they are misspelled, ungrammatical, or ornate.

      There is guidance to strike a balance here, but there’s also encouragement to aim for beauty. Is his audience everyone, no, but it might be everyone who really wants to know.

      Strunk and White can shove it, anyway, but then I am English. Plain language has enormous value in officialdom, insurance, law and finance, and it should be the goal, hence Crystal Mark etc.

      But great writing is often audacious, and sometimes that means being ornate.

    • jpfromlondon 2 hours ago
      When I see what passes for modern writing, be it genre fiction, non-fic for the general audience, or even the literary, I'm not sure I want to appeal to, convince, or share knowledge with them.

      Like casting pearls before swine.

      • paulluuk 49 minutes ago
        Your reply reads very similar to what Hart wrote:

        > True, some readers become indignant at their own inability to follow prose of any complexity or to recognize words any more obscure than those they are accustomed to using when talking to their dogs.

        I do think that there is value in using precise, obscure words to convey precise, obscure knowledge (as with Hart's pogonotrophy example).

        However, if all critique is dismissed as the indignation of swine, then how will anyone holding that position ever be able to tell whether they are just a bad writer?

        Hart suggests that they should critique themselves, or rely on the critiques of those who write in the same way as they do. I am a programmer though, not an author. But I know that only accepting reviews from those I consider accomplished enough, and ignoring reviews by others as if they were indignant at their own inability to comprehend my code, is a very dangerous path to walk.

    • hydrox24 8 hours ago
      I agree that it has been left to the reader to infer, but then again this is not really a how-to guide!

      And he gestures at the need for this at least once.

        To be able to balance expressiveness and reticence, or to know when to cast that balance away, requires tact and ingenuity and taste on the part of writers
    • Barrin92 15 hours ago
      does anyone need to get the 'rest of the world' to pay attention? That's already a crowded market of questionable characters.

      There's something ironic and self-defeating in trying to write to the whole world while also having such a low opinion of the whole world that a writer thinks they can't express themselves the way they want to or lose their audience.

      As DBH says at the end of the essay, don't write down to what you presume to be the level of your readers, that's insulting to both you and your readers.

      • GCA10 15 hours ago
        Can we roll back the debate a little? If I'd said "wider audience" instead of "rest of the world," we could explore the question of scope more amicably.

        I've been at two memorial services in the past six months where Mary Oliver's poetry has brought consolation and closure to people who needed it. Her choice of words is deceptively simple. A public-school 10th grader can follow along.

        Could she go deeper with a much richer vocabulary? Perhaps. Is she most effective -- and surprisingly subtle -- with the words she chooses? You bet. And what's true for Mary Oliver also is true for highly admired (and read!) historians, technical writers, etc. For me, at least, there's great power in simplicity.

      • breezybottom 12 hours ago
        Well that's terrible advice. Of course you have to make assumptions about your readers. Highlights Magazine has a different readership than The New Yorker.
    • arduanika 15 hours ago
      Kept out of sight in this dismissive comment is the pressing question: What year is it?

      Up until four years ago, your notion of "what's necessary" was the law of the land. Starting from sometime around Hemingway, we produced a century's worth of flattened, easy-reading slop, and much knowledge was shared very widely. There was a certain art to the blandness. (One notable master of that art is pg, the creator of this website.)

      Then we fed that slop into a giant machine that makes it trivial for anyone and everyone to produce that sort of generic writing. If you want to change minds and differentiate yourself now, you can't just do the old flat style anymore. You have to set yourself apart somehow, and you can start by loving the craft of writing again.

      The people who matter will read it and love it. Everybody else can take what you wrote, dump it into the slop machine, and rearrange it into something they find easier to read.

      • djray 13 hours ago
        One would hope that you change minds and differentiate yourself through the strength of your argument, rather than the anfractuosity of your prose or a propensity for sesquipedalian verbiage.

        Clarity does not equate to genericity. I am regularly struck by clear writing that is both lucid and powerful without resorting to ten-dollar words or tortured syntax.

        The fact that AI text is often so easily spotted is a clear sign that so-called 'slop' is not the same as a writing style focused on brevity and understanding over florid meanderings.

    • omeysalvi 7 hours ago
      That is the exact line where I stopped reading the article
    • starkshift 9 hours ago
      Ultracrepidarian!
  • lordleft 16 minutes ago
    It's almost refreshing to see intense debate about something DBH wrote that isn't about theology.
  • doodaddy 13 hours ago
    Look, I am in no position to seriously critique the author’s writing. He clearly has linguistic chops. But what kind of bunk is this? We get it, the flowery, overdrawn language of yore is more expressive. But that kind of writing gets in its own way. Words seem to trump concept. But reading that sort of writing feels like being in a museum; sure that Victorian gown looks pretty but does anyone actually want to wear it?

    And then, while arguing against monotony, this piece spends all its time repeating the same structure: a ten-dollar adjective followed by a ten-dollar noun. Ironically, the five passages cited as “good writing” mostly avoid the wordiness that the piece spends all its time arguing for.

    > Do not use a thesaurus.

    Oh now he’s just taking the piss.

    • loopmonster 12 hours ago
      To be fair, even if I have to look up half the words in the post to understand what he's trying to say, 'Do not use a thesaurus' still has weight - it's one thing to already know the perfect word for what you're trying to say (even if many others don't know that word), but another to decide on a whim that a given word should be replaced with a more 'advanced' alternative without knowing what you'll find or understanding the nuances of your pick.
    • jpfromlondon 2 hours ago
      Simple words can create beautiful and precise prose, even that is lost today.
  • ofalkaed 6 hours ago
    His em-dash usage is not clearly defined and distinct from other punctuation marks, it introduces a fair amount of unintended ambiguity. It is easy enough to understand but a few times I had to stop and try and figure out if there was some nuance and intent behind it all.

    >And—well, here,

    That was especially egregious. And! but—well, here, I guess, if I had to guess—which I don't(but I will)—the purpose of his essay seems to be, that; unintended ambiguity is good and really quite nice from an aesthetic standpoint. David Bently Hart seems to be the anti-McCarthy and falls into all the same traps as McCarthy, just walks into them backwards and blindfolded through a parentheses and a digression instead of jumping in head first.

  • A_D_E_P_T 15 hours ago
    > 8. If you must choose between elegance and perfect clarity, allow yourself a period of decorously agonized indecision, and then always choose elegance.

    I believe that this may be true of prose (it depends on the style of the author and the nature of what's being written,) but that it's untrue of every other form of written communication, and acclaimed prose stylists are often very poor letter-writers for just this reason. In writing non-prose, I find that there are only two rules:

    1. Be as clear as possible.

    2. Be as brief as possible, but do not veer into the intentionally laconic or abbreviated.

    I also am absolutely certain that attempting to attain maximal elegance is a trap that leads directly to purple prose, to works of literature that cannot naturally be read out loud, and to other unfortunate outcomes.

  • Animats 15 hours ago
    This guy hates Strunk and White’s Elements of Style, the famous "omit needless words" book. He's plugging for a baroque style that would be unreadable today.

    We do have baroque styles today, but they're different from classical baroque literature. They're the postings that start with a bio and cover the author's hobbies before getting to the point, perhaps including an anecdote from the author's past. There are writers who can make that interesting, and you can read them in the New Yorker. But the serious magazines have editors. In blog postings, you're reading the slush pile.

    • chris_armstrong 13 hours ago
      It might just be me, but I find his baroque style very readable. Despite using a vocabulary much broader than mine (irritating but admirable), he at least seems to have read his prose aloud, and considered how it's meter makes its meaning fluent.

      I agree that many writers fill their works with needless diversions and unnecessary expositions on their life that add nothing to their text, but this is different from a "baroque style".

    • jacobolus 14 hours ago
      Strunk and White promote all sorts of prescriptivist nonsense, taking arbitrary personal preferences and elevating them to sacred rules (including many which they themselves constantly violate because they don't accord with idiomatic English).
    • taylorius 13 hours ago
      I think Baroque is the wrong descriptor for those passages actually. The constructions employed in both are very varied, its true, and the vocabulary is wide, not to mention archaic to our modern ears - but all the words are performing a useful function in conveying what the author wanted to say. There is not much pointless ornamentation.
    • defrost 11 hours ago

        'We have really everything in common with America nowadays, except, of course, language.'
      
      said Oscar Wilde with eyebrow raised toward Webster, Strunk and White.

      Apparently this struck a chord in mid-Atlantic anglophiles, forcing an era of bleating on about ol' Blighty.

    • tigerlily 11 hours ago
      I can't remember who, but someone definitely said "if you want to write, you must first fill a chest with writing, then lock that chest, take out a blank sheet and then you can begin".

      TFA as well as many other works of blog, belong in that chest.

      • tigerlily 15 minutes ago
        Lest that comment be misconstrued for what sister comments frame as anger (are they not merely nonplussed?), I am happy for the writing to be. Except that all good writing is edited.

        Presently I am reading Hilary Mantel, an exemplary prose writer of the highest merit, so I trust you'll forgive me my Jeevesian dismay at style of The Florid Article.

    • orphereus 13 hours ago
      The modern response to baroque text is "mucho texto" jpeg with a gangster Yoda
    • hecreto 13 hours ago
      There are a handful of these every day on the front page. It is very jarring when they suddenly shift topics completely, using some vaguely tangential connection between what they started with, and the vapid thing they want to write about. Honestly - it’s wankery.

      Here’s one I just came across: https://asteriskmag.com/issues/15/rust-and-boll

      And there are plenty of others.

  • skobes 9 hours ago
    We are fortunate that this individual's stylistic perspective is out there adding spice and variety to the world. I think, however, that most of us would be ill-advised to emulate it.

    Orwell's maxim, "never use a long word when a short one will do", is something the best writers have always freely ignored. But it's a reliable guardrail for the writer of merely average skill, steering them toward something passable rather than vomit-inducing.

  • specproc 12 hours ago
    So much hate for this piece in the thread, I'm seeing almost no positive comments. I'm tempted to be unkind, but will exercise restraint; we are here, for the most part, technical writers, for whom parsimony is a professional virtue.

    I loved it.

    We're in an age where matrix multiplication can yawn out endless passages of trite, dull, sludge. The author, to my mind, makes a powerful and inspiring case for a future for human-written prose. The ability to effectively and creatively deploy a rich and complex vocabulary is the flex (in the parlance of our times) that distinguishes the craftsmen from the clankers.

    • starkshift 9 hours ago
      This person - gets it
    • antonvs 1 hour ago
      The issue I have with it is that it seems gratuitous, intended to impress - not that far from the edgy teenager who’s just discovered a thesaurus. Even the choice of passages he admires seems to fit that description.

      Any reader is likely to come across passages that really speak to them at some point, but to raise that to “One really would have to have a miserly spirit not to love both” is just… sophomoric.

      And if you think that “clankers” (such a silly, misapplied, childish term) somehow aren’t going to be capable of producing such prose, I have bad news for you.

  • Exoristos 12 hours ago
    I'm surprised to note -- if the discussion here is any evidence, then anger and literacy are inversely correlated.
  • tolugenius 16 hours ago
    English prose is one of those things I never quite got well; I grew up having read different versions of the Bible (like King James), old English versions of books, and found it to more "overtly wordy" (found it funny to imagine people talking like that about grocery shopping). I am curious how prose may change in 20-30 years given how cemented internet/social media talk becomes the norm, as well AI (and however education goes during that time). I agree with the author on some points but it depends on the material and subject matter where each matters.
  • znnajdla 5 hours ago
    This piece of writing moved me to my core, shook my whole being, enlivened my soul. It reminded me that I need to step away from Claude Code every once in a while and read the Classics.
  • tmoertel 8 hours ago
    Of late I have been reading the writings of some of the United States' founders. I am struck by how sophisticated they are compared to modern writing. Consider this portion of a letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to Isaac McPherson on the subject of what today we would call "intellectual property":

    > It has been pretended by some, (and in England especially,) that inventors have a natural and exclusive right to their inventions, and not merely for their own lives, but inheritable to their heirs. But while it is a moot question whether the origin of any kind of property is derived from nature at all, it would be singular to admit a natural and even an hereditary right to inventors. It is agreed by those who have seriously considered the subject, that no individual has, of natural right, a separate property in an acre of land, for instance. By an universal law, indeed, whatever, whether fixed or movable, belongs to all men equally and in common, is the property for the moment of him who occupies it, but when he relinquishes the occupation, the property goes with it. Stable ownership is the gift of social law, and is given late in the progress of society. It would be curious then, if an idea, the fugitive fermentation of an individual brain, could, of natural right, be claimed in exclusive and stable property. If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. Its peculiar character, too, is that no one possesses the less, because every other possesses the whole of it. He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. That ideas should freely spread from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire, expansible over all space, without lessening their density in any point, and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have our physical being, incapable of confinement or exclusive appropriation. Inventions then cannot, in nature, be a subject of property. Society may give an exclusive right to the profits arising from them, as an encouragement to men to pursue ideas which may produce utility, but this may or may not be done, according to the will and convenience of the society, without claim or complaint from anybody. Accordingly, it is a fact, as far as I am informed, that England was, until we copied her, the only country on earth which ever, by a general law, gave a legal right to the exclusive use of an idea. In some other countries it is sometimes done, in a great case, and by a special and personal act, but, generally speaking, other nations have thought that these monopolies produce more embarrassment than advantage to society; and it may be observed that the nations which refuse monopolies of invention, are as fruitful as England in new and useful devices. [1]

    This passage is typical for the letters of educated people of that era.

    Plowing through the endless waves of vacuous emails that reach my inbox daily, I cannot help but wonder whether we have lost something valuable in the arts of thinking and of expressing our thoughts.

    [1] https://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a1_8_8s12...

  • starkshift 9 hours ago
    I hate to say it, but the reactions in this discussion indicate to me a lack of imagination and literary thinking ability in the Hacker News audience. That is my overall impression anyway, I don't understand the hate!
    • pcrh 1 hour ago
      Agreed. The audience here tends towards functional/technical writing rather than expressive writing.

      On the other hand, should an article about typography be posted, then there will be many comments regarding the nuances of serifs, kerning, spacing and ligatures. Ignoring of course that none of these change the facts/data being communicated!

  • hbarka 16 hours ago
    > A good part of our sleepes is peeced out with visions,

    Because of current slang, I read this as “peaced out” then realized it’s “pieced out”. Peace out

    • SoftTalker 5 hours ago
      Any modern printing of old prose that used pre-standard-spelling should be updated to use modern spelling. It's simply too distracting to read otherwise.
  • gammalost 13 hours ago
    As someone with english as my second language this style is just too much to bother. Sure, I get that it is elegant and precise. But for me it results in stilted reading.

    Hence I disagree with the "Never write for your audience" part of the essay.

    • n4r9 2 hours ago
      It's less precise than it pretends, in my opinion. At least, it gleefully drops precision in favour of artful insinuation. For example, in reference to Orwell and Strunk & White it uses the word "decrees" to mean "advocates", implying a sort of pompous authority.
    • jarbus 7 hours ago
      As someone who generally liked the article, this is perhaps the strongest argument against it. Prose like this requires even native speakers to really focus. I wouldn't write this way for anything intended to be read by an unknown person.
  • andytratt 3 hours ago
    love writing on prose thanks for the share! Marcel Proust would be proud.
  • Finnucane 9 hours ago
    As a production editor at a uni press, who has to occasionally translate jargon into English, I find Orwell's essay to still be entirely relevant. The kinds of writing Orwell warned about still flourishes in the pablum emails we get from HR, the management reports with roundabout justifications for more layoffs, the political speeches that use a lot of words to say nothing. I just had a manuscript where the author was very fond of using trite filler phrases that added very little. It kind of made me miss the days of red pencils, a somewhat more satisfying way of cutting.

    Strunk & White, I have to agree, is mostly not very useful.

  • thataccount 16 hours ago
    There is something distinctly different from people speaking and writing in English prose in the 1600's versus someone trying to do so today. The person from today is infinitely more likely to be putting on airs than the person who is not commanding attention as an anachronism in the past. To be sure, Royal Societies were all about impressing each other to a certain extent, but also, there were some clever fellows/ladies that hovered and flitted about them.
  • kimjune01 14 hours ago
    i learned that no matter how good i am at writing prose, it doesnt matter if nobody reads it. so i write for AI agents instead, hoping that it'll get picked up by an agent and find propagation that way
  • juleiie 13 hours ago
    For me there is only one rule of writing: Reader must enjoy reading what you wrote. They are ultimately the final judge - the very reason to write anything at all.

    Anything else is just huffing your own farts for the kick of it. No matter how flowery the words are in your book or how intricate nuances of language. Such things can be outright counterproductive.

    • kmoser 7 hours ago
      Some people enjoy reading flowery words and intricately nuanced language; those who enjoy writing in that style should continue to do so, and reap the rewards of a similarly inclined audience.
    • breezybottom 12 hours ago
      That's still bad advice. Sometimes writing is just useful, not enjoyable.
      • juleiie 12 hours ago
        If it’s useful, as in - it has informative function, then digestibility is even more important.

        That’s the core tenet of any piece of journalism after all. To present information in an accessible way.

        • breezybottom 12 hours ago
          Digestible doesn't mean enjoyable.
  • thcipriani 6 hours ago
    What a great endorsement for Strunk and White! I love a precise insight, and I'll cede that unfamiliar word may be necessary.

    But a polemic that shit-talks the best authors of the 20th century is mid and unpersuasive.

  • Myrmornis 13 hours ago
    > How to Write English Prose

    > There are few if any passages in the works of Sir Thomas Browne that I do not find thoroughly delightful; but two afford me particularly intense pleasure.

    > To my mind, each is in its own way a perfect, exquisitely faceted gem of English prose from an especially glorious literary epoch. The music of the one has haunted me for most of my life;

    Oh come on. Sir Thomas Browne looks well worth reading but the author of this article is unreadably pretentious.

    • everybodyknows 10 hours ago
      Who was it said "Death to all modifiers"?

      Nouns, verbs, prepositions, and articles. Use those.

  • jp0001 14 hours ago
    The flatulence of text in that prose smells of rotting roses from an apology gone bad.
  • midnightbobarun 11 hours ago
    normal person: "I like to yap."

    Sir Baroquesly Yappington, Esq., an intellectual: writes a whole article about it

  • Atlas667 14 hours ago
    Damn, so pretentious.

    I agree with many things, in particular his sentiment about styles and "rules", but his demeanor is uninspiring.

    He doesnt provide much clarity around good writing and just comes off as rationalizing his own taste.

    You cant scorn popularity and accesibility, you gotta understand it and work with it to the extent that its important for what you want to achieve.

    Art, history and social contexts fold in on themselves, if you're using a baroque style of writing then understand where it belongs and do something cool with it. Be conscious of it.

  • Ozzie-D 9 hours ago
    [flagged]
  • boznz 14 hours ago
    Writing styles like this actually gets in the way of reading a story in my opinion and, I also assume, is also some high-brow writers way of getting around for the need for an actual story anyway. Many of the books I had to read at school, and that "cultured" friends read are like this, but truthfully they put me off reading, and is the type of writing I (as an author) go out of my way to avoid unless the character implicitly demands it.