GrapheneOS protections against data extraction from locked devices

(discuss.grapheneos.org)

63 points | by Cider9986 3 hours ago

5 comments

  • rzk 1 hour ago
    I think this has been posted in response to this news story [1] to clarify that GrapheneOS has strong protection against data being extracted even without a duress PIN/password.

    On a related note, a recent article [2] also describes how GrapheneOS helped a journalist protect his work and his confidential sources citing the 18-hour auto-reboot feature that returns the device to Before First Unlock (BFU) mode, where keys cannot be extracted.

    [1] A US man is being prosecuted after allegedly using a GrapheneOS duress PIN to wipe his Pixel during a border searchhttps://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jul/23/cop-city-pro...

    [2] A Journalist had his mobile phone seized. Did using GrapheneOS protect his data?https://www.computerweekly.com/feature/Journalist-Richard-Me...

    • microtonal 26 minutes ago
      citing the 18-hour auto-reboot feature that returns the device to Before First Unlock (BFU) mode, where keys cannot be extracted.

      Also worth mentioning that you can set auto-reboot to a shorter period (down to 10 minutes). So if you anticipate situations where your phone can be seized (border crossings, demonstrations), it's worth temporarily setting this to a short time period (or rebooting your phone yourself to get to BFU).

    • Tanoc 18 minutes ago
      In regards to your first link, the quote "'It’s concerning – and sends the message that [GrapheneOS] is criminal by default,' said Christophe Boutry, a cybersecurity and surveillance expert." really is leading language. It's stating that protection is criminal and that vulnerability is law-abiding.
      • microtonal 8 minutes ago
        This is why it is important to continue iterating everywhere that device security is important for everyone. iPhone has nearly the same level of protection and we also do not see it as 'criminal by default'.

        Secondly, it is important to get as many people to use GrapheneOS as possible, including non-tech people. The more widespread it becomes, the harder it will become to paint this picture.

  • prmoustache 38 minutes ago
    What GrapheneOS is missing is a complete backup and restore solution so that people can preventively wipe their smartphone before crossing the border. It would be nice to have the possibility to backup/restore every app and their data from an ssh/sftp server the way google/apple users do with google cloud / icloud. I'd rather wipe my smartphone, only add a couple of direct contacts, a copy of my passport and the pdf of my plane tickets, take the plane and cross the border with a smartphone with very little but real personal data they already know and be able to provide my PIN/password to law enforcement if they ask for it, abiding with law if such a law exist (which is the case in my home country), than using a duress and risk prosecution.

    Sure that doesn't protect your data from any other attack vector but it allows you to travel with less risk of getting detained by law enforcement of a country you are visiting. You get asked your password, you can give it, and they see a phone that is used like a dumbphone. If you get questioned for that a simple "my phone died yesterday, a friend just gave me his old pixel". If you need more stuff/information during your travel you would basically only need to remember the passphrase to access a password manager or a remote ssh server but you can restore only the stuff you need when travelling and and wipe again at any moment.

    Having said that maybe it is better to set this up some way but not have it builtin so that law enforcement doesn't expect that any grapheneos user would have his data on an sftp server somewhere by default. Otherwise we are back to point 0 where they would ask to connect to it and restore to a phone they own. Oh and have a dummy google account you only used to purchase a couple of silly stuff on amazon, aliexpress and shein and random subscription of various "non risky subjects" on youtube. The gmail address would quickly be filled with enough spam to look genuine.

    I am travelling abroad in 3 weeks for a month and I am seriously considering wiping up my grapheneOS phone before flying. I am wary that I could be targeted at a border just for having a google pixel with grapheneOS. Or maybe I should just leave my main phone at home and only travel with a new empty 150€ phone with only my main family emergency contacts. I don't remember ever being asked to show my smartphone at a border but you never know when it will happen. Thanksfully until you reboot it there is nothing that shows from the lockscreen that it is not running the regular google pixel android.

    • microtonal 28 minutes ago
      • Voklen 23 minutes ago
        > the project has been taken over by another group of people not sharing our goals or approach

        > Seedvault which was originally written for use in GrapheneOS by a GrapheneOS user is a consequence of the 2018 takeover attempt on the project, which the people currently in defacto control of Seedvault were heavily involved in.

        Seedvault is currently maintained by the CalyxOS team but I've never heard about this stuff. Does anybody know what happened?

        • flexagoon 6 minutes ago
          There has been a lot of conflict between Calyx and GrapheneOS a while ago.
    • hahn-kev 25 minutes ago
      Honestly, I feel like I'd be more suspicious of someone who had little to nothing installed on their phone.
      • prmoustache 16 minutes ago
        A lot of people are still using their smartphone pretty much as a dumbphone with a web browser.
      • izacus 1 minute ago
        The easiest way to avoid suspicion is to have a phone filled with cat and family pictures, dumb apps and games.

        You don't avoid scrutiny by being wierd and hiding things, but by hiding in plain sight by being ultra boring.

    • ButlerianJihad 34 minutes ago
      [flagged]
      • prmoustache 13 minutes ago
        > So you plan to (1) actively/proactively conceal your data/evidence

        I am not concealing data/evidence as it doesn't exists. I don't know of any law in any country that force you to hand out the key of your home to a remote state so that they can enter your country and do a search.

        > and then (3) constantly restore from cloud backups?

        Why constantly? Only and only if I need to access specific data (that may be available remotely without restore anyway). Full restore only when going back in my own country.

      • Hikikomori 6 minutes ago
        It's been normal operating procedure for many employees that travel to the US. You think they're all criminals?
      • cyberax 29 minutes ago
        Border officials don't have the right to search all of your data.

        You are also not under any obligation to have it on your phone at all times.

        • ButlerianJihad 27 minutes ago
          [flagged]
          • prmoustache 12 minutes ago
            > Correct! Furthermore, border officials have no requirements to allow you into their country either, unless you’re a citizen there,

            I'd rather have them tell me to turn back and go home than being jailed there only because I don't want them to fap them at the picture of my daughters.

          • izacus 16 minutes ago
            Unfortunately, it'll most likely go something like this: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jul/23/cop-city-pro...
            • prmoustache 7 minutes ago
              Being prosecuted because your smartphone has been setup yesterday is not the same as being prosecuted because you gave a password that wipe your phone in front of law enforcement.

              In the past I have had my smartphone die a couple of days before travelling and quickly buying a smartphone so I could have a mobile line in case of emergency while travelling. This is not a totally uncommon case to have a smartphone with very little data. A lot of people never setup any cloud backup and lose all their data every so many years.

            • microtonal 11 minutes ago
              Yeah, the lesson is: do not travel to countries that treat people such in a shitty way. This has always been true. Unfortunately, for many foreigners this also applies to the US nowadays.

              I guess that you are out of luck if you are a US citizen and need to return to your own country.

  • robotswantdata 1 hour ago
    Relevant xkcd https://xkcd.com/538/
    • ris 23 minutes ago
      I hate this meme.

      The point is to at least make them resort to hitting you with the $5 wrench, at which point they're probably committing a more serious offence than what you're up for (dependent on country).

      • moffkalast 19 minutes ago
        You end up getting hit by a wrench though, that doesn't sound like it ends well for you.
    • bigyabai 1 hour ago
      Relevant news story: https://www.androidauthority.com/grapheneos-duress-pin-us-pr...

        According to The Guardian, the US Department of Justice is prosecuting Atlanta resident Samuel Tunick after he allegedly gave a GrapheneOS duress PIN while border agents were trying to search his Google Pixel phone.
      
      It sounds like he did give them the password, but it was the password to wiping his phone and not unlocking it. I'm surprised they didn't back up the device first.
      • prmoustache 58 minutes ago
        From what I understand he was not formally arrested at the time, just interrogated at the border. I am not familiar with US laws but from what I understand the device was not (yet?) considered evidence in an investigation. I imagine backing up might not be as easy an option without tearing down the device as the memory chip is no the device mainboard, so not something you can necessarily do on the side of the road or at a border without a formal warrant/investigation.
      • riedel 15 minutes ago
        This is really an interesting case. Hope to see a ruling here. The edge cases are really interesting as well, like the fake pin on the back of the phone. I also wonder generally about the 'destruction' of data Wouldn't the government need to prove that there is no backup, because just making it more difficult (like hiding) would probably not call for the paragraph. Unfortunately for the rest of us the defence is based on more proven grounds. I guess only plausible deniability is helpful: I e.g. would love to see my trusted android space being empty/recreated on false password.
      • cryo32 25 minutes ago
        My trick there is not travelling to the US.

        I carry a burner phone when travelling most of the time anyway. It has access to email only, 99% of which is in offline folders anyway.

      • microtonal 18 minutes ago
        It sounds like he did give them the password, but it was the password to wiping his phone and not unlocking it. I'm surprised they didn't back up the device first.

        The duress password does not wipe the phone. It wipes the encryption keys from the secure element. The phone's storage is the backup, but it is worthless, unless law enforcement has an attack against AES that does not require a brute force attack (unlikely).

      • imkac 1 hour ago
        Backup is useless without security chip.
  • LoganDark 50 minutes ago
    Wow, I did not know Android had a password length limit of 16. The password I typically use for my devices nowadays is longer than that, but for Android I always just used pattern lock.