A US administrative labor law judge judge found that software maker Atlassian had illegally fired an engineer after she pushed back against manager layoffs and other policy changes.
> The ruling found that the engineer, Denise Unterwurzacher, had a federally backed right to make such comments because she made them as part of a collective effort to aid or protect co-workers.
> The judge ordered the company to reinstate Ms. Unterwurzacher to her former job or an equivalent position, and to make her whole financially. It is one of the most significant outcomes in years in a case involving the labor rights of a tech worker.
Atlassian said it planned to appeal the ruling, however.
I am not a lawyer, but if they don't appeal and win, it will set a precedent that they'd (and other companies) have to pay out on any other employees fired for this reason. That will cost them more in the long run.
It’s depressing how the tech ecosystem works as a self-reinforcing cartel against workers for statusquo preservation. Yes, it’s rational from the tech industry as a whole’s POV, there’s little to no chance a single individual can really stand against such machinery
I think this is a salient point people are missing. This incredible freedom is equal on both sides, just as how companies are able to spread that risk around with multiple employees, it is common these days to have multiple jobs just in case of a layoff or other notable event where your job is lost.
I am doing a double take reading your comment and the parent comment of yours. They’re just so wildly corporate-biased.
I’m really not sure how we can conclude that the freedom is symmetrical.
The fact that this story made national news says everything about how rare it is for an employer to win a case like this. In most cases you just get fired for any reason with no notice or off-ramp. The employer is just always correct by default and you can easily be denied unemployment insurance because the company cooked up some official looking documents showing that you were fired with cause.
I also think the idea that second jobs are used to spread risk is really not a strong one. Most people who have multiple jobs have multiple jobs because they’re underpaid or their employer can’t schedule them for enough hours.
That's not really true at all. You just think that because you never hear about it. Stare decisis still applies at a trial level, but its scope is obviously much narrower. Moreover, most things really aren't that novel. Most importantly, its quite hard to research on this level and usually pointless because theres usually a higher level case anyway.
Only if customers don’t care about your labor practices. For me this story screams “Don’t Use or Recommend Atlassian - in fact, strongly advise against it.”
In these cases where they have to rehire someone, does the employee usually stay after? Wouldn't the workplace be kinda hostile now with the manager who fired you?
Unlikely it was the person's direct manager who made the call to fire them. I would normally assume this person won't be up for a promotion for a long time. And they'd need to do everything by the book going forward.
On the other hand they've shown everyone they have backbone and that Atlassian ss petty and engages in illegal retaliation. So the company may be forced to be on its best behavior with this person in the future.
Yeah I can't imagine that playing out particularly well. Maybe at a company as large as Atlassian it is feasible enough to stay isolated. But I'd think the relationship is tainted from both sides at this point and doesn't favor either party.
I don't know about other companies, but I don't really interact with my manager outside of 1 on 1s like once a quarter. Also, it's never his choice to fire someone, it's always from above. I'm sure if he was forced to lay someone off he'd be just as happy as they are to have them back.
Atlassian was extremely foolish. Obviously you want to fire someone who makes unprofessional comments like that on the company Slack, but you don't explicitly fire them for that, you find some other defensible reason to do it.
thats something i've wondered too, but as a long time jira user i'd rather foss contribute to something better designed (both code and ux-wise) than rehash the mess of ux anti-patterns of jira... just my 2c
I mean... yes? A company pays you to work. If you are using company resources, during company time, to attack your company... why exactly would they keep you employees? She was warned multiple times. It's quite amazing this court let this happen at all.
If an employee of yours spent hours every day attacking you.... would you keep them employed? Why not?
From the article I read it didn't say employee was attacking them hours every day. From the articles the employee posted a message on an internal slack "Outrage Notification" channel which looks to be an internal venting channel containing similar content.
Atlassian has values "Open company, no bullshit" which they selectively use. "Open company, no bullshit" until it isn't. Example, this case, upsetting Mikes ego.
I was on a team at Atlassian that got constructively dissambled after not being happy with some changes for the worse. Worst retro I've ever been in, all developers heads on desks, manager: "suggest how we fix this issue", developers silent as every answer from the developer got the reply from manager on the lines of "no, you know we can't do that anymore". Then the digging through historic slack messages and social media posts started followed by departures...
That was a very long time ago now, seems not much has changed.
> The ruling found that the engineer, Denise Unterwurzacher, had a federally backed right to make such comments because she made them as part of a collective effort to aid or protect co-workers.
> The judge ordered the company to reinstate Ms. Unterwurzacher to her former job or an equivalent position, and to make her whole financially. It is one of the most significant outcomes in years in a case involving the labor rights of a tech worker.
Atlassian said it planned to appeal the ruling, however.
I think it'd be cheaper to keep her at this point. I'd tell your lawyer's egos to take a chill pill.
Employees can take up a huge amount of resources and then leave before costs are recovered.
I’m really not sure how we can conclude that the freedom is symmetrical.
The fact that this story made national news says everything about how rare it is for an employer to win a case like this. In most cases you just get fired for any reason with no notice or off-ramp. The employer is just always correct by default and you can easily be denied unemployment insurance because the company cooked up some official looking documents showing that you were fired with cause.
I also think the idea that second jobs are used to spread risk is really not a strong one. Most people who have multiple jobs have multiple jobs because they’re underpaid or their employer can’t schedule them for enough hours.
Of course, they won't stop firing employees who point out inconvenient truths, they'll just be more careful about the reasons they put in writing.
Only if customers don’t care about your labor practices. For me this story screams “Don’t Use or Recommend Atlassian - in fact, strongly advise against it.”
To me this reads as: Atlassian says it doesn’t want customers.
Happy to oblige. Our $100 million startup moved off Atlassian recently, and we couldn’t be happier.
On the other hand they've shown everyone they have backbone and that Atlassian ss petty and engages in illegal retaliation. So the company may be forced to be on its best behavior with this person in the future.
If you don't want to be a "victim" here simply don't fire people for making those comments.
If an employee of yours spent hours every day attacking you.... would you keep them employed? Why not?
Random HN comment:
> her comments were unprofessional and she has no right to distract the company.
Same User:
> y Downvote :(
Atlassian has values "Open company, no bullshit" which they selectively use. "Open company, no bullshit" until it isn't. Example, this case, upsetting Mikes ego.
I was on a team at Atlassian that got constructively dissambled after not being happy with some changes for the worse. Worst retro I've ever been in, all developers heads on desks, manager: "suggest how we fix this issue", developers silent as every answer from the developer got the reply from manager on the lines of "no, you know we can't do that anymore". Then the digging through historic slack messages and social media posts started followed by departures...
That was a very long time ago now, seems not much has changed.
It's mildly dramatized, bordering on milquetoast satire of exactly what he was doing.