Late Bronze Age Collapse

(acoup.blog)

70 points | by dmonay 1 hour ago

4 comments

  • evanjrowley 54 minutes ago
    Seems to be a popular topic.

    Historian Eric H. Cline has multiple books citing this time period, specifically 1117 BCE as the inflection point for the bronze age "collapse", defined by a deterioration of international shipping routes that weakened the nation-states of the era. I've learned about it recently because YouTube began recommending videos about it.

    For example: https://youtu.be/choxcHXhZhE?is=t5lDwQQpqPsE2k5M

    One historical event that Cline focuses on is a severe centuries-long drought. It's something the ACOUP article seems to omit. Cline does not focus as much on destruction of bronze-age sites although there is one port city in particular which is linked to the international trade of the time. Exactly who destroyed it appears to be a mystery but it could be linked to the migration theory that ACOUP dismisses. The migration may have actually come as a result of the previously mentioned drought.

    • ape4 1 minute ago
      I think it's a popular topic because so many people are wondering when our civilization will fall.
    • pfdietz 40 minutes ago
      The drought explanation seems particularly plausible for the Hittites, IMO. They had grain storage, but ~3 years of drought would exhaust that. So if the climate becomes just a bit drier the chance of such a three year run increases enough to likely crash their society.

      Today we have a huge buffer from the large use of grain to feed animals. In a crisis it could be diverted as human food, with some effort. Large geographic range from global shipping also smooths out blips. Still, a Toba-like eruption would be bad news.

      • stymaar 7 minutes ago
        > Today we have a huge buffer from the large use of grain to feed animals.

        This, plus the gigantic amount of agricultural land being used for biofuel production (almost as much as cattle food).

      • idiotsecant 28 minutes ago
        It's unlikely that rich countries would experience famine as severely as poor ones and consequently they would probably still demand meat. Grain that could feed people would still feed livestock.
        • bryanlarsen 13 minutes ago
          A draw down of animal stocks increases meat supply in the short term. As grain gets more expensive, farmers sell animals for meat rather than keeping them to reproduce.
          • stymaar 3 minutes ago
            But “As grain gets more expensive” middle eastern countries (that rely almost entirely on import for their grain source) would start facing grain shortage (due to balance of payment issues) or at least severe deprivation of the poorer part of their population.

            The Tunisian, Egyptian, Syrian and Libyan revolutions didn't occur at the same moment out of coincidence…

    • darkfloo 47 minutes ago
      Shameless plug for my favourite YouTuber of all time https://youtu.be/aq4G-7v-_xI?si=GviYcvEtOAJ1mln7
    • icegreentea2 32 minutes ago
      I don't think Bret (the author of ACOUP) omits drought - he leads his section on plausible theories with "period of drying and consistent crop failures". While Bret dismisses the out to in migration/invasion theory, he does support the idea of intra-region migration/warfare (perhaps induced by drought/crop failures).
    • DicIfTEx 41 minutes ago
      The fantastic Fall of Civilizations podcast also had an episode about it: https://fallofcivilizationspodcast.com/2019/01/21/episode-2-...
      • pixl97 41 minutes ago
        Ha, beat me too it. FoC is a great channel.
    • the-smug-one 23 minutes ago
      Eric Cline has an interview on "Tides of History" podcast.
  • timbits98 6 minutes ago
    Given the era, it seems likely that the collapse was the work of multiple angry gods. The author doesn't cover this possibility.
  • lordleft 38 minutes ago
    Beware the Sea Peoples
    • evanjrowley 34 minutes ago
      In an alternate timeline, The Sea Peoples are Romans sailing to England, the Anglo-Saxons, the Normans. Things became fuzzy when the English themselves became other civilization's Sea Peoples.
      • appreciatorBus 17 minutes ago
        I would wager that almost every civilization has been some other civilization’s sea people at some point in it’s history.
        • stymaar 0 minutes ago
          Well, at least not civilizations where dreams dry up.
    • forinti 21 minutes ago
      There's a Portuguese saying "há mouro na costa" which is literally "there are moor at the coast" and means that there is something fishy going on.
      • hackyhacky 14 minutes ago
        The Moors existed about 1900 years after the Sea People of the Bronze Age.
        • nkrisc 4 minutes ago
          I don’t think they’re implying the moors are responsible for the Bronze Age collapse, merely drawing parallels.
  • onion2k 16 minutes ago
    The Bronze Age was the third best age.
    • dn3500 3 minutes ago
      After the one where humans first harnessed water power, the Dam Age, and when we started wearing clothes, the Garb Age.