Leave a Trace

(jakeworth.com)

60 points | by surprisetalk 1 hour ago

19 comments

  • dvh 2 minutes ago
    Few weeks ago someone here (let's call him $user) commented here that articles that would most benefited from picture often don't have one, to which someone replied calling it "$user's law", I wanted to comment how spot on the $user was but ultimately didn't and instead just upvoted. I was just about to complain here how I wish I commented so that could find it again, but then I thought, wait a minute, maybe hn tracks upvotes too, and sure enough it does, I was able to find the comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48001607

    > The more an article would benefit from photos, the less likely it’ll have them. -- Waterluvian's Law

  • randusername 33 minutes ago
    Similar idea: don't go through life anonymously.

    Go to your professor's office hours, learn the names of your neighbors, become a regular at the local sandwich shop and shoot the breeze with staff, ask the people you're waiting in line alongside if they have any good jokes.

    Don't be fooled that social media and conspicuous consumption are the best paths to community.

    • jasonpeacock 27 minutes ago
      That all sounds exhausting (introvert here).

      The last thing I want to do when out in public is be stuck talking with strangers.

      • hk__2 11 minutes ago
        As an introvert, one thing that works is that I repeatedly go to the same shops and restaurants so people know me and I know them, and we’re not strangers anymore.
      • jagenabler2 8 minutes ago
        The price of community is inconvenience
      • knorker 20 minutes ago
        As a fellow introvert, I would recommend that you see it as taking medication. Or getting exercise.

        You don't do it because you like it. You do it because if you don't, then you'll be worse off years later.

        • xRyen 9 minutes ago
          This is something I've definitely lived by for many years. Nearly all of my colleagues and friends don't believe me when I say I'm an introvert. I purposely put the effort in to make meaningful connections with anyone I can and it has paid off more times than I could ever count. Is it exhausting? Absolutely. But in my mind, the alternative is worse. People are great. Get to know them.
        • jader201 10 minutes ago
          > You do it because if you don't, then you'll be worse off years later.

          This feels hyperbolic. While I would agree that community and remaining connected are very important to overall health, I don’t feel like making a habit of talking to strangers is a prerequisite.

    • jader201 15 minutes ago
      > ask the people you're waiting in line alongside if they have any good jokes.

      I know no one who tries striking up a conversation with strangers, and I feel like the majority of strangers would be annoyed/uncomfortable with this.

      • aljgz 2 minutes ago
        I feel the same.

        Sometimes, I work against this and start conversations.

        Rarely people are annoyed. Too often, they seem happy someone breaks their shell, they just don't want to be that person who takes the first step.

        Every time I see a new person I still feel the same.

      • bluGill 2 minutes ago
        Somehow everyone gets friends - which means at some point in life everyone did talk to a stranger.
  • hk__2 1 hour ago
    > As a writer, receiving feedback on my work is welcome and rare. This blog gets thousands of readers a month, and yet the amount of direct feedback I’ve received over all the years is a small fraction of that.

    If you don’t have any comment box it’s hard to give you any feedback.

    • Gualdrapo 29 minutes ago
      It can be worse: on a recent post here[0] the author says the contact page on his blog "does nothing but wastes spammers time and effort"[1]. Granted, he links to an email on said page, but why include a fake contact form[2] on your page then?

      [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48508069

      [1] https://bruceediger.com/posts/honeypot-design/

      [2] https://bruceediger.com/contact/

    • ChoosesBarbecue 50 minutes ago
      What is the ideal approach for one? Assuming you don't want it to be a public one (to avoid moderation headaches), and you want to avoid automated spam, and your page is a static site, what is the ideal way to incorporate something like that?
      • uukelele 7 minutes ago
        Maybe giscus

        https://giscus.app/

        It works for static sites, you just need to embed their script, and spam and moderation would be handled by GitHub.

      • hk__2 13 minutes ago
        I have a static blog with a public comments system using Disqus; it’s just a JS snippet and it works great. I’ve seen people (ab)using GitHub issues too, or even use gists for blog posts.
      • knorker 39 minutes ago
        Shaming people for not leaving comments anyway, I infer. /s

        I put my email address on these things. All spammers already have it anyway. I get some feedback.

        Or a normal web form with a captcha will create minimal spam. Certainly sufficient for someone not famous.

        Or you can have a google form. Either with or without google verifying the senders email address.

    • knorker 59 minutes ago
      You're not kidding. There's neither comment box nor email address. Is he expecting us to cyberstalk him to find if someone has doxxed him, just to give a thumbs up?

      "Why is nobody calling to invite me to parties", says man who unplugged his phone.

      Edit: Ok, I'm old. For younger people, pretend I said "turned off his phone".

      • hoppyhoppy2 57 minutes ago
        There is a contact form on the Consulting / Hire Me page, but it takes a little poking around to find it.
        • knorker 48 minutes ago
          Yeah. Should we just magically infer that he likes getting non-gig contacts on his explicitly gig contact form? The form is under "Get in Touch", and under an offer for a 15 minute call. I don't want that.

          This reminds me of a friend of mine who in a B2B setting contacted a potential vendor by filling in a form, with his email and phone number as contact details. Instead of emailing or calling back, this vendor continued the conversation by tracking down my friend on LinkedIn and messaging him there! They already had the email and phone number from their form.

          I'm also not super impressed by the consulting gig's "Johnny Holton" reference talking about Jake's "engineering excellence". A google search says Johnny Holton is an American hand egg player.

          If I were a potential client going in cold then this would not fill me with confidence in his attention to detail.

  • logged4upvoting 41 minutes ago
    For me it is more like, i should have started leaving a trace before the invention of modern genAI, now maybe is late. I could have had a trusted trace to prove that I am a genuine human, now I get the impression that faceless new accounts/profiles or whatever are all fake and automatically managed.
    • Cthulhu_ 15 minutes ago
      It's never too late; the important part is to have a personality and your own opinions. AI is agreeable, they will just go along with whatever information they are prompted with, unless they get an explicit prompt to be disagreeable. But you as a human have morals, values, experience and knowledge that you can apply to e.g. leaving comments or writing things.

      But this was good advice years ago too. The average Facebook or Youtube comment section feels like it's full of empty drones, repeated and predictable comments that don't actually add much. HN comments are a breath of fresh air in that regard. Reddit can be to some degree, as long as you filter out the predictable kneejerk reactions and "I also choose this guy's dead wife" meme comments.

  • suncemoje 44 minutes ago
    In contrast: A few years ago I was hiking on the Pacific Crest Trail (PCT). One of the few rules to follow there is to explicitly leave no trace, in respect to nature and others.
    • smugglerFlynn 38 minutes ago
      People go to nature to interact with nature, not with traces of other human beings. You don't want to ride 4 hours to countryside only to find very same things you've been running away from.

      In contrast, people go to blogs to find opinions, and traces of opinions of others are usually adding, not subtracting. One can say whole HN is a sandbox for sharing opinions, therefore "untouched" posts with no comments and low points are less attractive.

    • OuterVale 34 minutes ago
      The common saying is 'Take only photographs, leave only footprints.'
  • smugglerFlynn 24 minutes ago
    You were probably thinking about geeks leaving heartwarming comments under a forgotten repository while reading this.

    But what really makes a trace valuable? Internet growth has proven that scaling traces does not really grow value to the same extent.

      > Leaving something adds a little humanity to the internet.
    At this exact moment in time there are literal thousands of creators that chase external validation, and millions of lurkers leaving 1-bit "like" reactions under their content. Let's go to popular instagram pages in a search of humanity.

      > It helped you, so it’s likely a useful idea
    Billions of reactions left on social media so far proved to be very poor indication of quality.

      > You now have a profile you can access that collects the things you found noteworthy
    In a world of content abundance one rarely has time or motivation to re-visit everything he/she reacted upon. This also works increasingly worse the more "traces" you leave, see #1 and #2.
    • moffkalast 5 minutes ago
      The "traces" I love most is people who post complicated enough issues on github repos that show the depth of their use case.

      Where there's some detail that's causing them problems, and they would not hit it unless they were actually making use of the project in a productive way. It's sort of the ultimate proof of the work I did being useful for somebody and a genuine motivator to resolve that issue for them too.

  • ChrisMarshallNY 13 minutes ago
    > Tell them it didn’t work and why.

    I did that, once, and got an expletive-filled rant about ungrateful, entitled shits (meaning Yours Troolie), in response.

    These days, I just quietly slip out the back, and close the door behind me.

  • bcjdjsndon 8 minutes ago
    Gave up waiting after 30s of clustering
  • quaunaut 52 minutes ago
    Ignoring the ironically missing way to respond to the post beyond the consult page, this is something I used to reliably do, for exactly this reason:

    > First, it’s positive and affirming in the aggregate. Despite its scale, the internet can be a lonely place. Most creators create in a vacuum. ... Leaving something adds a little humanity to the internet.

    I think I'll try better to re-establish this habit.

  • Retr0id 59 minutes ago
    You can leave traces in the physical world too, although it's often looked down on as vandalism.
    • Cthulhu_ 13 minutes ago
      There's non-destructive ways to do so; take a photo, post a review, write a blog post. Actually Facebook and Instagram are known platforms to "leave a trace" like that, its shady side aside.

      But also, plenty of public places like museums, restaurants - at least where I live - have a "guest book" where you can leave a message. I like to believe other visitors and the staff have a leaf through those every once in a while.

    • NopIdoN 45 minutes ago
      A teacher told us that if we ever jump off a building, we should make sure to land teeth-first so that we leave an impression.
  • bohrar 48 minutes ago
    I am one of those consumers of the internet, who believes in adding minimal noise. But I see the point being made in the post, and here I am, leaving a trace.

    If the page had a comment box, would have done it there.

    • suncemoje 42 minutes ago
      And, how does that make you feel?
      • bohrar 6 minutes ago
        Surprisingly, it just makes me feel more invested in the topic than I would have been otherwise and frankly not worth the time. Also, not surprisingly, I am evaluating whether my comment added any value and I think it just added to the noise.
  • dabedee 1 hour ago
    I think this is pragmatic and useful advice. Often it also helps you work through what you think by writing it down. Left this comment as a trace.
  • mulhoon 35 minutes ago
    Years ago I was stuck on a tricky JS bug, I Googled it and ended up on a decent answer on StackOverflow. I implemented it, and it worked! I went back to SO and upvoted the answer, and it said "You can't upvote your own answer" Huh!??? Yes, it was my own answer from years back. Thanks, me!

    Glad I left a trace.

  • gravel7623 31 minutes ago
    Nice try NSA.
  • password4321 15 minutes ago
    If you really want feedback, make sure you leave something needing correction.

    "A stranger is wrong on the internet!" xkcd#386

  • jongjong 36 minutes ago
    Leaving a trace is something I've been grappling with which seemed incredibly straight forward initially as an open source developer.

    These days, I find myself questioning for whom am I leaving a trace for? What kinds of humans or entities? Do I care about the kinds of entities who will inhabit the future? Or will their value system be so different to my own that I'd prefer not to have anything to do with them.

    Beyond human nature itself, I take issue with the trend of how human nature seems to be changing over time; for the worse.

    • swiftcoder 21 minutes ago
      In the context the article intends, the trace isn't really for you, it's for the people you interact with
    • knorker 26 minutes ago
      > I find myself questioning for whom am I leaving a trace for? What kinds of humans or entities?

      How's your reasoning there? You only want to be nice to people who have earned it? This sounds a bit too close to the "you have to EARN my respect", which is a hallmark of somebody nobody wants to be around.

      You can only control your own actions. If your "good deeds" are conditional or transactional, then that very much diminishes their goodness.

      • jongjong 12 minutes ago
        You're right. I have certain values and I'm OK if others expect certain values from me. To me this is ideal. Friendships should not be based on superficial things like money or social status to the point that you have to constantly change yourself over time to maintain alignment.

        If you pay attention, you will notice that this is how the vast majority of people operate.

        To me, that's transactional. Having fixed core values and expecting other people to share certain core values is not transactional, it's genuine. These are the kinds of relationships which don't require constant maintenance; you can not talk with the person for years and then resume the friendship like no time has passed, no matter how your situations have changed. If you can change your values based on the latest social trends, then you have no values. The friendship is held together by mutual material benefits; that's transactional.

        I have no genuine interest in being friends with people who don't have core values. Because then I'd know I'm only in it for the money, and that's a lot of work and stress for me. Maybe second nature to some people. But I'm no good actor. To me it's work.

        My view of humanity is most people are actors and most people lie to themselves constantly.

  • S7012MY 52 minutes ago
    Great post!
  • gnofoente 35 minutes ago
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  • RiOuseR 1 hour ago
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