That's pretty cool. In a similar but very different vein: A few years ago I took twenty years of daily satellite imagery and computed the mean color for countries and the world https://www.landshade.com/
But in doing that you really do notice how everything concerning colors is just a bit arbitrary. You get raw reflectances from a scientific sensor on a satellite with specific spectral bands and sensitivity within those bands. And then you try and map this scientific sensor to the sensor that is your eyes, to try and emulate what we would actually see if shot up into space.
The web has its own storied color, albeit a tragic one. Rebecca Purple is a named CSS color, which was added in tribute to Eric Meyer's daughter, who very sadly passed away at a young age. That shade was her favorite color.
Life is colorful, life is cruel. Do not just hug your loved ones, hug the people who cannot hug their loved ones. A bit of kindness and a bit of sympathy go a long way.
I have an acquaintance who is a professional artist[1]. He has some great stories about colours/paints/pigments. I suppose it's akin to tales of who created a particular programming tool/compiler, or when a language weirdly added gotos (PHP!). It's great to hear experts opine on their craft. Not sure we have that here, but still.
The author produces a very nice range of oil colors under the Langridge brand in Melbourne, downunder... its nice to keep these artisanal practices alive.
Would be handy to have the standard pigment codes. Ive been gradually moving away from using heavy metals such as Cadmiums. Haven't found the perfect red, although Napthol Red PR170 and Pyrrole "Ferrari" Red PR254 are pretty close to primary for mixing from a limited palette.
Its really surprising how you can get gorgeous brick-red browns and deep purplish blacks from mixing a near primary red and primary blue.
Here in Northern Europe there seems to be something of a renaissance of traditional linseed oil paints, both because of people being more environmentally conscious and wanting to avoid VOC's and microplastics, but also because there's plenty of scare stories of people rotting their houses after painting them with more modern but less breathable paints like the usual alkyds or acrylics.
Not saying it's not possible to be successful with the modern paints, but they demand a different style of construction that allows air to flow on the backside of the facade.
This is the kind of note I was hoping for. Standard pigment codes (PR170, PR254 etc) are a good call and I wanted a proper Color Index field and this pushes it up the list. I will also take another look at the Van Dyke Brown swatch. You may be right that it reads too close to burnt sienna. Chromatopia looks like a lovely book and thanks for the Langridge pointer, glad those artisanal makers are still going.
Cool idea, but unfortunately low-effort AI slop. The colors are covered in vibe-coded patterns that obscure the actual color, much of the writing is wrong and soulless. The prompter writes on the site that he uses AI to support in writing, because as a man with a day job it would be "impossible" to write all this himself. I'd urge him to write in his own words, starting with a minimal subset of colors and slowly building up a library. It could be a "one entry per day" challenge, or even just "one entry per week". Why is everyone in such a rush?
I wanted to check if the information on this page was correct. I started searching and found this site [0], which looks very similar. I thought it was made by the same person, but it's not. It's just another website designed using LLM.
One advantage of LLM is that you can quickly and easily generate a "pretty decent" website. However, there is a drawback, that there is a high chance that a page with a very similar design(and similar idea) already exists somewhere.
> Most of what you can read about historical color on the web has been rewritten three or four times from the same Wikipedia paragraph, with the citations dropped along the way. What you are reading here is an attempt to put the citations back.
That implies the entries also are based on the Wikipedia paragraph, though I think the author means they do their own research. The entries I looked at list several high-quality entries in a bibliography at the bottom but don't cite any of the text. Also, I don't know who wrote these - do they have any idea what they are talking about? Is this LLM output?
If anonymity ever worked (almost never in scholarship), it may not work anymore due to LLMs.
> Known generative-AI crawlers are disallowed in robots.txt. This is a research catalogue assembled from primary sources; it is not training data, and a model fine-tuned on these paragraphs would launder out exactly the part — the citations — that gives the prose its value.
This reads like distaste for LLMs - but generally website reads (and is designed as!) very LLMy.
If the About page said who made it, i.e. if someone was putting their reputation on the line, I might be more receptive. But the website has enough LLM design tics to make me suspicious.
It's sad. I come to Hacker News to see cool stuff and when I click on a link and see something obviously put together by an LLM I feel like I've been tricked :(
Fair hit and I should have done that from the start. There is a person behind this and the About page is now updated (https://storiedcolors.com/about).
Short version: I'm a technical architect who painted as a kid, stopped for years, and started this to get back into it. I do use AI to draft the entries and I'm not going to pretend otherwise but I check every one against named, non-Wikipedia sources and cut what I cant source. You shouldn't take that on faith so the methodology and the citations are there to check and there's a corrections address when I get something wrong. I totally get the "put together by an LLM" reaction on how it felt. I'd rather try and earn the trust back than argue about it.
Right?! It's a bummer when a nice-looking website is now a red flag. It's become part of my workflow now browsing the web to check the About/Contact page on a website immediately; if there's no real person behind the site, how can it be trusted?
Apologies. Was taken with the names and stories. . . didn't read the about page. Guess my critical thinking was on the fritz. Seriously, learn a lot here and will try to do better.
I actually think “explore Claude’s understanding of colors” is an interesting concept. A lot of fascinating cultural information gets compressed into LLMs.
"One color a day, told as it ought to be told: with its provenance, its chemistry, and the people who paid for it in poison." is so Claude it hurts. :'D
Except on that page there's immediately a claim that isn't backed up by any of the citations, eg:
"The hunting-safety effect has been substantial. The non-fatal hunting accident rate in the United States fell substantially over the decades following blaze-orange adoption, with state hunter-safety data consistently identifying the orange mandate as a major contributor to that decline."
None of the sources have any national hunting accident data - there's a single link to data from New York, and nothing that would support the claim that state data "consistently" identifies anything...
i do like the concept, though the blatantly claude-tinged "italicized word" visual language undermines the author's credibility w.r.t graphic design history imo
Sounds like gatekeeping to me. They have an interesting idea and story and probably aren't web devs. But you write it off because the design (the least important point of telling the story) doesn't match your sweaty purity test. If anything, these vibe coded projects are the new plain HTML or Angelfire sites that a lot of people here seem to pine for. No one is getting off of your lawn anytime soon. Whining about it is just fucking annoying.
My home town was famous for the red cloth that the British Army used to wear. This same red cloth was the main 'trade cloth' for the East India company and native peoples, the world over, just wanted it. The East India company wasn't paying for stuff in silver, the red cloth was worth more than that.
As for why my home town dominated the red cloth trade, well, there are reasons. The 14th century plague is part of the story as that is when sheep took over the land. Thanks to the British weather, the sheep developed a hard wearing wool which was perfect for the armies of the world and for clothing the slaves of the world.
Then geology came into play, with an abundance of Fuller's Earth, important for getting the wool clean. Coupled with that were teasels, necessary for processing the wool. Even the water comes into it, since the Industrial Revolution started with water wheel power.
Eventually competition came from Yorkshire for this particular broadcloth. Many aeons later, WW1 came along and charging into battle with red tunics became somewhat fatal. That was it for the product.
Sure, this particular red is one of the billions of colours out there, so it is of no surprise that it is omitted, however, the history is awesome, but you need someone that knows their history to tell the story.
LLMs lack passion and the ability to interpret varying sources in the way that a historian can. Notionally there is depth of knowledge with LLMs, since everything ever written is known, but then there is no depth of knowledge. You read, and read and read, to learn very little.
We have an interesting 'just because you can, doesn't mean you should' aspect of LLMs. I appreciate that, superficially, this website looks awesome, but who is it for?
As a HN person, I need P3 OKLCH colours and I have an expectation that the colour in question will stay on the page, at least as a sticky header. I would also expect a 3D-modelling style 'sphere', showing the specular highlight, diffuse and ambient lighting to be showing how the colour works. I appreciate that my art friends have no idea what I am on about here, so what do they get?
Anyone British that has an artist's studio and a brush will have many, many Winsor and Newton colours, they are a major brand and truly storied, at least in the UK. Clearly they put some effort into 'evergreen content' by writing up their various colours.
As for whom they are writing for, they have customers! They didn't pay people to write blog articles just because they could, they did it because they should. They have product to shift.
I am sure they did a little bit of keyword stuffing with their blog articles, as was the fashion, and all of it is 'marketing', but still, it is much better writing than anything LLM.
Getting back to 'should' and 'could', the crux of the matter is if you have something of value. True value, according to some economics people, is a product of human labour, with machines not really cutting it, unless you count the human effort needed to design, make, maintain and calibrate the machine.
It is a bit of a controversial opinion, however, I think the only value of doing things the LLM way is just that, you can prove that you can do things the LLM way. This is legitimate in a job marketplace that demands AI with everything. But, once that novelty has worn off?
We will see what survives the test of time. Maybe Winsor and Newton will sack their content creators and just get an LLM to churn out blog articles. But, would any of that have any value?
Nope.
Would any of it survive the test of time?
Nope.
An added aspect to LLM use is criticism. Humans deserve respect and you can't just go around dissing the hard work of others because that just is not nice. But, use an LLM and you can basically say 'that is a load of rubbish because you cheated'. Painful.
That aside, you do have something that could be really good. But you can't leave the reader underwhelmed or else they won't be back or signing up for more. Writing original content is hard. If I had to write an essay for school homework on my hometown's special red colour, it would take me all week to do research. Even then I would have barely scraped the surface. Writing a compelling essay would also require skill at writing, plus I would need someone else to proof-read, edit and fact check for me.
For the next colour I would be back to square one, and if this colour took me far from the history and culture of my home town, I might be way off the mark with assumptions made. Note that Winsor and Newton would not hire me, if writing that slow, unless I was a 'distinguished fellow' at some art place of note.
But in doing that you really do notice how everything concerning colors is just a bit arbitrary. You get raw reflectances from a scientific sensor on a satellite with specific spectral bands and sensitivity within those bands. And then you try and map this scientific sensor to the sensor that is your eyes, to try and emulate what we would actually see if shot up into space.
There's some really cool science around that if you're a color nerd: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S003442571...
But the data is open source, so if you want to dig around my badly documented code and raw satellite data yourself, be my guest: https://github.com/jonasViehweger/LandShade/tree/main/data
https://medium.com/@valgaze/the-hidden-purple-memorial-in-yo...
Rest in peace Rebecca.
https://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2018/06/07/decimated/
https://www.alastairjohngordon.com
You may also enjoy the Chromatopia book : https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40554590-chromatopia
The author produces a very nice range of oil colors under the Langridge brand in Melbourne, downunder... its nice to keep these artisanal practices alive.
Would be handy to have the standard pigment codes. Ive been gradually moving away from using heavy metals such as Cadmiums. Haven't found the perfect red, although Napthol Red PR170 and Pyrrole "Ferrari" Red PR254 are pretty close to primary for mixing from a limited palette.
Its really surprising how you can get gorgeous brick-red browns and deep purplish blacks from mixing a near primary red and primary blue.
Not saying it's not possible to be successful with the modern paints, but they demand a different style of construction that allows air to flow on the backside of the facade.
``` background-image: radial-gradient(circle at 23% 12%,rgba(255,255,255,.6) 0 1px,transparent 1.5px),radial-gradient(circle at 78% 41%,rgba(255,255,255,.5) 0 1px,transparent 1.5px),radial-gradient(circle at 12% 73%,rgba(0,0,0,.5) 0 1px,transparent 1.5px),radial-gradient(circle at 55% 88%,rgba(255,255,255,.5) 0 1px,transparent 1.5px),radial-gradient(circle at 88% 18%,rgba(0,0,0,.4) 0 1px,transparent 1.5px); background-size: 7px 7px,11px 11px,9px 9px,13px 13px,8px 8px; ```
One advantage of LLM is that you can quickly and easily generate a "pretty decent" website. However, there is a drawback, that there is a high chance that a page with a very similar design(and similar idea) already exists somewhere.
[0]: https://chinesecoloratlas.com/
That implies the entries also are based on the Wikipedia paragraph, though I think the author means they do their own research. The entries I looked at list several high-quality entries in a bibliography at the bottom but don't cite any of the text. Also, I don't know who wrote these - do they have any idea what they are talking about? Is this LLM output?
If anonymity ever worked (almost never in scholarship), it may not work anymore due to LLMs.
This reads like distaste for LLMs - but generally website reads (and is designed as!) very LLMy.
It's sad. I come to Hacker News to see cool stuff and when I click on a link and see something obviously put together by an LLM I feel like I've been tricked :(
No human writes like this, so what is the training material that has taught LLM's that this is the way to write?
Even if LLMs were used to help, someone must have spent a lot of time on making it read well. At least that's how it feels like.
"The hunting-safety effect has been substantial. The non-fatal hunting accident rate in the United States fell substantially over the decades following blaze-orange adoption, with state hunter-safety data consistently identifying the orange mandate as a major contributor to that decline."
None of the sources have any national hunting accident data - there's a single link to data from New York, and nothing that would support the claim that state data "consistently" identifies anything...
https://xkcd.com/color/rgb/
and the survey
https://blog.xkcd.com/2010/05/03/color-survey-results/
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1317227
I care. So do they.
As for why my home town dominated the red cloth trade, well, there are reasons. The 14th century plague is part of the story as that is when sheep took over the land. Thanks to the British weather, the sheep developed a hard wearing wool which was perfect for the armies of the world and for clothing the slaves of the world.
Then geology came into play, with an abundance of Fuller's Earth, important for getting the wool clean. Coupled with that were teasels, necessary for processing the wool. Even the water comes into it, since the Industrial Revolution started with water wheel power.
Eventually competition came from Yorkshire for this particular broadcloth. Many aeons later, WW1 came along and charging into battle with red tunics became somewhat fatal. That was it for the product.
Sure, this particular red is one of the billions of colours out there, so it is of no surprise that it is omitted, however, the history is awesome, but you need someone that knows their history to tell the story.
LLMs lack passion and the ability to interpret varying sources in the way that a historian can. Notionally there is depth of knowledge with LLMs, since everything ever written is known, but then there is no depth of knowledge. You read, and read and read, to learn very little.
We have an interesting 'just because you can, doesn't mean you should' aspect of LLMs. I appreciate that, superficially, this website looks awesome, but who is it for?
As a HN person, I need P3 OKLCH colours and I have an expectation that the colour in question will stay on the page, at least as a sticky header. I would also expect a 3D-modelling style 'sphere', showing the specular highlight, diffuse and ambient lighting to be showing how the colour works. I appreciate that my art friends have no idea what I am on about here, so what do they get?
Here is an example from the pre-LLM days:
https://uk.winsornewton.com/blogs/articles/winsor-blue
Anyone British that has an artist's studio and a brush will have many, many Winsor and Newton colours, they are a major brand and truly storied, at least in the UK. Clearly they put some effort into 'evergreen content' by writing up their various colours.
As for whom they are writing for, they have customers! They didn't pay people to write blog articles just because they could, they did it because they should. They have product to shift.
I am sure they did a little bit of keyword stuffing with their blog articles, as was the fashion, and all of it is 'marketing', but still, it is much better writing than anything LLM.
Getting back to 'should' and 'could', the crux of the matter is if you have something of value. True value, according to some economics people, is a product of human labour, with machines not really cutting it, unless you count the human effort needed to design, make, maintain and calibrate the machine.
It is a bit of a controversial opinion, however, I think the only value of doing things the LLM way is just that, you can prove that you can do things the LLM way. This is legitimate in a job marketplace that demands AI with everything. But, once that novelty has worn off?
We will see what survives the test of time. Maybe Winsor and Newton will sack their content creators and just get an LLM to churn out blog articles. But, would any of that have any value?
Nope.
Would any of it survive the test of time?
Nope.
An added aspect to LLM use is criticism. Humans deserve respect and you can't just go around dissing the hard work of others because that just is not nice. But, use an LLM and you can basically say 'that is a load of rubbish because you cheated'. Painful.
That aside, you do have something that could be really good. But you can't leave the reader underwhelmed or else they won't be back or signing up for more. Writing original content is hard. If I had to write an essay for school homework on my hometown's special red colour, it would take me all week to do research. Even then I would have barely scraped the surface. Writing a compelling essay would also require skill at writing, plus I would need someone else to proof-read, edit and fact check for me.
For the next colour I would be back to square one, and if this colour took me far from the history and culture of my home town, I might be way off the mark with assumptions made. Note that Winsor and Newton would not hire me, if writing that slow, unless I was a 'distinguished fellow' at some art place of note.
First example I saw was already wrong. COBALT BLUE is not known since 1830 but its ANCIENT.
This webpage is some low effort english centric world and wrong and probably just AI slop.