Life During Class Wartime

(tbray.org)

63 points | by AndrewDucker 3 hours ago

6 comments

  • zug_zug 46 minutes ago
    Yeah I'm glad somebody's talking about it. Wealth inequality seems like it will be THE defining issue of our lives (accelerated drastically by AI).

    I think there are many practical ways to solve it, and would love to see more proposals out there. Instead I tend to see nihilism or division.

    • tardedmeme 32 minutes ago
      Extreme power inequality seems to be the default state of human society. Power concentrates until it's maximally concentrated, then stays there. Power shakeups seem to usually replace one group of elites with another group of smaller or the same size.

      Exceptions to this rule come about for specific reasons. Before the industrial revolution, there just wasn't that much power to go around. Everyone was working their land for sustenance, and the rent-seeking nobility extracted some percent of production because that's what there was to extract. When the industrial revolution came, those who figured out how to exploit it became the new nobility and worked their employees to the bone. It was only after actual, bloody, war between the factory owners and the employees that we got labor rights, which were a truce agreement. And that agreement's been steadily declining since Reagan. It took a while because the beneficiaries of the labor rights era were able to hold onto their wealth and pass it down to their children, but now we're back in the same factory feudalism situation again, but with different technological status.

      • harimau777 10 minutes ago
        That sounds like the same observation that Thomas Jefferson made:

        "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

      • readthenotes1 21 minutes ago
        I don't know why you're down voted. Perhaps the observation that inequality is often and the noble savage utopian dream of "all pigs are equal" is not the norm is too a bitter pill to swallow
        • verall 4 minutes ago
          I believe it's because in many cases, the unspoken follow on to "inequality is the norm" is "and so it's useless (or actively harmful) to try to defy that norm."

          Not that above commentator is meaning that.

          But many "thought leaders" i.e. Jordan Petersen play around with similar motte-and-bailey - "hierarchies are natural" (examples with lobsters, apes, whatever) --> "existing hierarchies should be preserved" (not defended in the argument but implied).

          Probably some downvoters are reacting to the structural similarity, although taken in good faith i think above commenter makes a fine point about the historical pattern of periods of equality being short lived and brought about by great intentional effort while sliding back to inequality seems to occur all of the time.

      • joe_mamba 8 minutes ago
        >Everyone was working their land for sustenance, and the rent-seeking nobility extracted some percent of production because that's what there was to extract

        Until the black death came in the 1300's and killed an estimated 30–60% of Europe's population, and now the nobility had nobody to rent seek or even to work their land.

        Then, the surviving workers gained bargaining power as landowners (lords) competed for labor, leading to higher cash wages, better working conditions, and more freedom for peasants, because the feudal lords hadn't yet figured out how to replace the peasants with H1-Bs and illegals from across the planet.

        So according to history, with your other post-WW1 example, the only times peasants gained bargaining power was when millions of them died through war and pestilence. Huh, why does this look familiar?

    • nervysnail 26 minutes ago
      Marxism-Leninism
  • masfuerte 9 minutes ago
    I'm very surprised that Tim Bray isn't part of the richest 0.1%.
  • AlexandrB 7 minutes ago
    The elephant in the room is why governments need more money: old age benefits like social security. I fear that taxing wealth will just be a tax on future investment while funnelling that wealth to the elderly. Already, folks are pushing to make the key asset owned by the old - housing - free from property taxes (if you're over 60, naturally)[1] which will only push housing prices up and drive more budget deficits that needs fresh tax revenue.

    I don't expect Social Security (or my country's equivalent) to exist in anything like its current form when I'm old enough to retire. This is the last hurrah and it's shocking how we're pulling out all the stops to make it happen.

    [1] https://www.sos.ca.gov/administration/news-releases-and-advi...

    • timbray 4 minutes ago
      Well, healthcare is an increasing piece of government spending all over the world, and the population is aging, so politics and policy aside, that number is going to go up.
    • harimau777 6 minutes ago
      Even if the government took the money and burnt it that would be a net good for society since it would lower inequality and thereby decrease power imbalances.
  • cfst 54 minutes ago
    Regarding the IMF report, is it actually harder to hide wealth than income, or is it that there are so few global taxes on wealth that nobody's currently bothering to hide it? It seems like income, being a continuous series of transactions, would be the more difficult of the two.
    • tardedmeme 32 minutes ago
      I bet that both are fairly easy to hide, but some forms aren't. It's hard to hide when money arrives in your bank account and it's hard to hide that you own 51% of Tesla shares. You can do either one of those through a proxy however, which makes it harder to track down, not impossible (why does 51% of Tesla shareholding always agree with this guy? Why's he shilling Offshore Panama Corp LLC products so hard?)
    • nerdsniper 31 minutes ago
      I think it varies - each are easier/harder to hide in different ways at different scales. It's the "convicting Al Capone for tax evasion" thing. They didn't need to prove where his income came from, they could just show that his wealth was clearly higher than his declared income could have possibly yielded.
  • huragok 29 minutes ago
    [flagged]
    • readthenotes1 20 minutes ago
      And then?
      • FabCH 9 minutes ago
        Not to condone the violence OP is calling for, but we have very recent examples of what happens when somebody does this.

        The factual answer to your question is: „for a limited time, rejections rates by health insurance companies plummets“

      • harimau777 16 minutes ago
        Can you elaborate?
  • Atlas667 18 minutes ago
    Do you really understand class war? Your suggestion is having the state legislate this away as if the state isn't fully compromised by the capitalist class?

    This is the main lesson of the 20th century that liberals refuse to accept; that the state is controlled by capitalist class interests. Capitalist democracy is a curated racket.

    And even if we were to force legislation exactly as described above it can't and hasn't lasted long due to the incentives ($billions) to undo it. They will go as far as to kill people for this, and they have.

    Legislation does NOT fundamentally change existing power relations. They have this shit in their pockets and you're just saying that we should have them take it out of their pockets.

    The western allergy towards Marxism is one of the most detrimental cultural positions the working class has EVER faced.

    • hootz 8 minutes ago
      In the west, the prevalent idea is that socialism/communism lost and that there is nothing beyond capitalism. This is it, we will forever live in a social-democracy state. I wonder who promotes this idea.
      • AlexandrB 5 minutes ago
        > In the west, the prevalent idea is that socialism/communism lost and that there is nothing beyond capitalism.

        It didn't just "lose", it killed millions of its own people in the process. Having been born in a communist state, I'd rather clean toilets in American than do anything else in the USSR.

        • hootz 1 minute ago
          We are currently killing millions of our own people. Communism is not stuck in time with the USSR.
        • harimau777 2 minutes ago
          What about all the places where that didn't happen? E.g. the Nordic countries where social democracy has been extremely successful.