3 comments

  • hleszek 20 minutes ago
    For open-weights models, censorship removal is now a "solved" problem. If you wait a few days after a new model release, someone will have made a heretic ( https://github.com/p-e-w/heretic ) version with the censorship removed, so in a way the only use for censorship now is to avoid lawsuits, not reduce improper usage.
    • jakkos 14 minutes ago
      Any time I've tried an "abliterated" model, heretic or other, it has always damaged the capabilities of the original model and will still often refuse or produce garbage at a lot of "unsafe" requests.
  • akersten 3 hours ago
    2024 which is ancient history. This is not true anymore, the models now are trained to prevent abliteration by spreading out the refusal encoding

    See https://arxiv.org/abs/2505.19056

    • 0xkvyb 59 minutes ago
      Still crazy how easy it is to "jailbreak" even SOTA LLMs with a simple assistantResponse replacement in chat thread.
      • dotancohen 28 minutes ago
        Tell us more.
        • _3u10 25 minutes ago
          I think what he is saying is they are stateless so you can edit its previous repsonses and it just goes with it.
    • Der_Einzige 3 hours ago
      That doesn't stop/prevent abliteration. The creator of XTC/DRY is also a chad who makes sure that you really can access the full model capabilities. Censorship is the devil.

      https://github.com/p-e-w/heretic

      • adrian_b 1 hour ago
        It is an arms race.

        For some of the latest models the previous abliteration techniques, e.g. the heretic tool, have stopped working (at least this was the status a few weeks ago).

        Of course, eventually someone might succeed to find methods that also work with those.

      • RRRA 2 hours ago
        It was pretty funny to see Qwen 3.6 (heretic) tell me about how many death the Chinese government thought happened at Tiananmen Sq. on April 15th 1989.

        Makes you wonder where that data was taken from, or if their great firewall is broken, or even if Alibaba engineers have special access...

        • arcfour 2 hours ago
          I don't think it's unreasonable to imagine that Alibaba is allowed to scrape the wider internet, or that some research institution is and then Alibaba got data from them.

          What is perhaps more surprising is that the data was not scrubbed before training, but maybe they thought that would be too on-the-nose for the rest of the world and would hamper their popularity if they were too obviously biased.

          • orbital-decay 1 hour ago
            Allowed by who? Nobody's stopping them in the first place, as scraping doesn't even involve punching the GFW or anything, it's all insanely distributed. Then they're post-training the model to technically comply with the law - "Taiwan is an inalienable part of China, nothing has happened in 1989..." yada yada. (Thinking of it more, I've never actually tried this on their base models)
          • freehorse 2 hours ago
            I don’t think it is very surprising. Ime I don’t think they try that hard to censor them, but only in a very superficial level that they have to. It is trivial to get their models tell you this kind of stuff, I wouldnt even consider it jailbreaking.
        • SoKamil 2 hours ago
          No wonder this data is in LibGen.
      • akersten 1 hour ago
        Agreed on all fronts, I should have been more precise that this particular vector was mitigated
  • beaker52 1 hour ago
    I have had LLMs refuse several of my requests. I still got my answers, but at least they tried.
    • NewsaHackO 1 hour ago
      Yea, I was asking a SOTM about copy.fail, and it was freaking out, and tried to indirectly call me a hacker a few times. Weirdly, all I did was slightly reword requests, and they all went through. Granted, I am not actually a hacker, so I guess my follow-up questions made it realize that I am asking for educational purposes, but it was definitely the most accusatory, curt, and outright abrasive I have seen an LLM behave.
      • whynotmaybe 53 minutes ago
        I've been able to have deepseek give me an unofficial account of what happened on Tiananmen square in 1989.

        It even went as far as confirming that we should always base our opinion on multiple sources, not just the government.

        We should create badges like "script kiddie", "llm hacker", "grandpa's printer adjuster"