Work with the garage door up

(notes.andymatuschak.org)

99 points | by jxmorris12 3 days ago

21 comments

  • mattkevan 1 day ago
    Genuinely curious where the best place online to do this is today.

    Until recently my reflexive answer would have been Twitter, but [gestures vaguely at the state of it].

    Would it be Substack, Bluesky, Mastodon, a personal blog, or somewhere else?

    Maybe I'm overthinking it, but it's hard to know where to get started.

    • kristianp 2 hours ago
      I like reddit, but feel the moderation model is too skewed towards censorship. I created an informational post recently on a niche subreddit and it seemed well received, but then was deleted by a mod with no explanation.
      • collabs 12 minutes ago
        I don't bother submitting to reddit. I would say if you want to post anything substantial, as in something with multiple posts, to reddit, it should be on your own subreddit. Only allow posts and comments by approved users though.
    • burnt_toast 1 day ago
      Niche forums are still alive and well.

      I run a blog and like to write about projects but it's hard to get feedback there unless you're willing to moderate comments. As a work around I started sharing build threads on places like garagejournal and you can get a lot of good feedback.

    • runjake 2 hours ago
      For sharing digital creations, X is still the #1 place to do it for visibility and discovery. I get a surprising amount of positive interactions there.
    • frangonf 1 day ago
      I think the best way to do this today is having your own site, be it in the shape of a blog, digital garden or whatever and then syndicate, following POSSE[0], in case of wanting community or distribution.

      [0] https://indieweb.org/POSSE

      • 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2 hours ago
        Yeah. You can follow microformats and use Bridgy to syndicate to BlueSky and Fediverse
    • simonsarris 1 day ago
      > but [gestures vaguely at the state of it]

      Everyone wants to gesture vaguely at the state of it but it's still by far the best place. Just use the site the way you want to use it, post the way you wish others posted, and mute stuff you don't like aggressively.

      • cyberge99 1 day ago
        Xtwitter is NOT the best place to be. For anything unless you’re a horny cryptobro.
        • dvt 2 hours ago
          Curious as to why people think this (other than partisan trend-following). I've been on Twitter since 2009, and it's arguably in the best spot it's ever been, apart from Grok being pushed so aggressively. A lot of people still build publicly on Twitter. If you're conservative you can follow conservatives, if you're liberal you can follow liberals. I find Elon annoying, so I just muted his account because it seems like it was being algorithmically pushed, especially during the DOGE days. But I do follow politics pretty closely, and it seems relatively balanced overall.

          Not sure if it turned into Musk's idealistic "town square," but it's certainly more interesting than it was before.

          • antiframe 2 hours ago
            I think it depends on if your values align with the communities or not. For those that align, it seems fine. For those that don't, it's hostile.
          • caconym_ 34 minutes ago
            I stopped using it because offensively stupid drivel from morons who paid for blue checks started getting upranked everywhere, pushing down the tweets I actually wanted to see. I have no problem talking to people with different ideologies and political views (actually I tend to enjoy it), but what the site was showing me was consistently not worth my time.
      • TheElectronaut 2 hours ago
        [dead]
    • swader999 51 minutes ago
      Isn't twitch or YouTube live the obvious sort of way?
    • projektfu 2 hours ago
      I think YouTube can be a good place for it, probably supplemented by a simple website.

      Example, Pete's Garage.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQFlaDhWsck

    • mdb333 1 hour ago
      Hackaday is still pretty cool if you're into technogadgets and the like
    • malshe 1 day ago
      I would begrudgingly suggest LinkedIn. I have seen a bunch of professors doing it there successfully. There they also promote their Substack which LinkedIn allows. I remember Elon had banned Substack on X at one point.
    • tayo42 1 day ago
      Does substack have a built in community like that? I thought you really needed to get people there or use it for the newsletter feature.
    • oliver236 1 day ago
      [flagged]
      • ghostpepper 1 day ago
        It was called Twitter for 17 years before being renamed in 2023. The Twitter domain still redirects to roughly the same site it was for all those years.

        Why does it matter if someone still calls it Twitter?

      • wpm 1 day ago
        Cause X is a stupid name
        • cortesoft 1 day ago
          And twitter isn't?
          • zaphar 1 day ago
            No, it isn't. Twitter was absolutely brilliant marketing. It perfectly encapsulated what the site was at the time.

            X is just a letter the current owner likes. It has absolutely no relevance to what the site does or is for.

      • stronglikedan 1 day ago
        [flagged]
        • kashunstva 1 day ago
          > everyone

          Surely this claim cannot apply to all humans who refer to that social media service. There are multiple potential competing explanations that have nothing to do with virtue signalling. For many, particularly non-users or rare users, “Twitter” is a more familiar name. Personally I don’t like the new name; and since it’s not a person, dead-naming it causes no one any harm or offence. Twitter, X - if one’s interlocutor understands that you’re both referring to the same service, what does it matter in casual circumstances?

    • stronglikedan 1 day ago
      [flagged]
      • threetonesun 1 day ago
        X doesn’t even allow for non-logged in users any more, forget about the blatant racism from its owner and occasional child porn. Who even knows what algorithm it uses to show content any more. Anyone still posting there is either wildly ignorant or completely ok with this, and in either case it’s hard to value anything they say.
  • mapontosevenths 1 day ago
    I very much agree with this author, and the sort of open source ethos it embodies.

    However, as a corporate stooge I have a hard time balancing my natural desire to work with the garage door up and my "neighbors" (legitimate) need for me to turn my terrible garage band music down and only show up after practice is over (when I have a nice deliverable).

    Does anyone have any tips for finding the right balance? What is the professional development teams version of working with the garage door open?

    • LatencyKills 1 day ago
      I was also a corporate stooge (at both Apple and Microsoft). One of the biggest differences in culture was exactly this point. At Apple, it was encouraged to share your successes and failures in real time across teams. At Microsoft, there was so much infighting and competition that you tended to share nothing until you were ready to release. For example, someone on the Windows team wouldn't want to give away a cool solution that could be "stolen" by the dev tools team. This resulted in walled gardens that were protected at all costs.
    • Lalabadie 1 day ago
      So long as this is about sharing on the Internet, the fun part is that no one is forced to be your neighbour. The question becomes whether you want to create the opportunity for kindred spirits to find you or not.

      In a corporate setting it's a bit different, since you need to create non-critical sharing spaces where it's okay to share that sort of progress.

    • throwpoaster 1 day ago
      Seems related to the explore/exploit problem, where the standard answer is related to the answer to the Secretary Problem[0], with the important caveat that it depends on whether "passing" on an opportunity legitimately makes it unavailable in future.

      But another good answer is to open the door and trust the audience. The people who show up to the garage practice are perhaps not people who show up to buy tickets.

      Adopting a scarcity mindset, generally, is a bad idea.

      [0]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_problem

      • mapontosevenths 1 day ago
        I'd never heard of the secretary problem, though like all of us I've been in that situation hundreds of times. Fascinating read! Thank you.

        This is one of those (increasingly rare) internet conversations that might lead to legitimately better outcomes in my life.

    • doctorpangloss 2 hours ago
      how do you know that you are not the super critical one?
  • regenschutz 37 minutes ago
    It definitely depends on the platform, though. On GitHub, absolutely, work with the garage door up. But on some platforms, it's the complete opposite.

    Many moons ago, I was making mod for a game and had the idea to publish it on Nexus Mods [0] so that I didn't have to bother setting anything up once I actually wanted to publish the initial release of the mod. It was not at all in a working state when I made the public page for it.

    Imagine my surprise when I wake up the next day and have thousands of views on the page and a dozen comments berating me for publishing a mod that doesn't work...

    Ever since then, I have had problems with working with the garage door up, even though I know that it's totally acceptable on GitHub. It's habit by now to work on everything with the garage door down, just in case...

    [0]: https://www.nexusmods.com/

  • analog31 1 hour ago
    I'll definitely steal the phrase (with attribution of course).

    When I first started using Jupyter, I was curious about the idea of turning a notebook into a paper or book by hiding all of the code cells. In fact I learned how to do it, and have now forgotten.

    More recently, I just share the notebook, code and all. I've learned that people like managers actually like it that way, because it gives them a feeling of involvement, like bringing them into the lab. You can read it, use it, change it, whatever you want.

    Unfortunately, the climate doesn't like me working with the garage door up. During the winter, it's cold. During the summer, condensation pools on the cold floor.

  • dmos62 1 day ago
    How do you learn to share what you do, when you're not used to sharing at all? Should one accept that noone will read 99% of what one shares and just use sharing as a way to record and reflect on own process?
    • asa400 1 day ago
      > Should one accept that noone will read 99% of what one shares and just use sharing as a way to record and reflect on own process?

      Yes, 100%. Almost no one has found either my public code or my writing useful, but the process of writing and documenting has been tremendously useful to help me clarify what I _actually believe_ at that point in time. This is the primary benefit.

      That said, a few projects have taken off unexpectedly and clearly helped some folks, and I've received a few cold emails from folks who somehow ended up on my blog, and all have been pleasant conversations!

      One thing I recommend is trying to lower the threshold of what is acceptable to publish. Publish scraps, publish "today I learned", publish "look at this stupid thing I discovered" stuff. Gradually your threshold will rise, but one mistake I see people making is the belief that they have to publish finished projects and novel-quality writing in order for it to be worth it. Nothing could be further from the truth.

      • wonger_ 40 minutes ago
        Yes, and and it might help to have a second stream for those smaller things -- a microblog, notes, or TIL section of your site (I call mine nuggets).

        It helps relieve the pressure from full-length blog posts. A place to let yourself drop below a certain level of quality/polish/length. Anything to move beyond a stagnant blog / writer's block!

    • theshrike79 1 day ago
      I've "built in the open" before that was a thing.

      Just the fact that my Github repos are 99% public forces me to be diligent in what I commit (no secrets, nothing private)

      I have like one project with over 10 stars and a bunch of forks, but that's about it. I build stuff for me, not for others. If someone can look at my crap and get inspiration, it's cool but not essential to my happiness.

      Some people on the other hand LOVE the "community" bit of it, every single brain fart of them has a fancy landing page, 15 posts about it on different subreddits and substacks and it's basically a yt-dlp wrapper or something. That's not for me.

    • bombcar 1 day ago
      Yes. The very act of sharing is a form of "rubber ducking" [32] which will help, even if you're Truman and nobody else exists.

      And even if nobody else exists, you do [99] and can later look back at your sharing and glean insights, even if "wow look how little I knew and how far I've come".

      [32] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging

      [99] https://gutenberg.org/ebooks/59

    • twosdai 1 day ago
      I think if you make the sharing intentional to specific groups or specific people with high quality work, people will be interested.

      So you can biforcate your sharing somewhat. 99% of your content of sharing will not be watched initially, but if you trim it and edit it intentionally well for an audience who care, people will come to see more of what you have.

      Many "influencers" share a lot on twitch and then cut up the best part of their stream into a 2 minute video byte for youtube. As an example.

    • voidUpdate 1 day ago
      I do exactly the second part of this. Nobody is going to read what I write, so I just write about what I did, how I did it and what I was thinking when I did it. Not everything has to be written as a perfectly cited essay, but often just noting down what you did can be helpful in the long run. Sometimes I've thought of something, remembered that I did something useful and related in the past and dug out an old article to consult my previous thoughts
    • sanex 1 day ago
      1. "Nobody" will likely read it. Don't overthink, don't be shy. 2. If you don't post you won't put the effort in to make it good. Finish your thoughts, fix your grammar, add headers and bullets and tags and pictures.
  • myself248 1 hour ago
    This is part of the power of a makerspace, to me. To show up and work on my own thing, whether or not someone asks about it, whether or not someone offers to help. Those latter things are where I usually focus, but the first is important too.

    The funny thing is, the space really has a garage door (two, in fact), and when the weather permits, we love to work with them up. Occasionally people wander by and inquire, and get a tour, and some of them have joined as members.

  • triwats 1 hour ago
    THe interface - or the garage itself - is huge here.

    I want multiple ways to publish. Sometimes I wanna share images, sometimes I just wanna pipe output from a command and add some context.

    Pretty frustrated of going into apps like X that break my train of thought instantly.

  • mettamage 1 hour ago
    I'd love to but I'm afraid, I'll be in breach with my employer. I don't know what I can or can't say.
  • endymion-light 1 day ago
    I like the concept of this, but it does feel horrific to share on most social media. I already share a lot of work I do in local dev chats etc - but there's something about the X algorithm that makes sharing anything feel terrible.

    Although weirdly i've found youtube to be really good in terms of getting audience for smaller works, and annoyingly linkedin seems to actually share inside your network.

    There's just something about Twitter/X that is a complete shout into the void when posting about in-progress dev work that feels awful.

  • dcchuck 1 day ago
    I enjoyed the sentiment, thank you for sharing.

    Came to post about the site. My first reaction to the layout was "Oh, must be optimized for mobile." Then I clicked a link in one of the articles and it opened alongside it. Very slick. I enjoy this! It enables that "wiki deep dive" style of browsing. I suddenly want to read all your notes.

    • steezeburger 1 day ago
      I actually made a Wikipedia browser directly inspired by Andy's blog: https://steezeburger.com/wikipedia-browser/

      I find it a really intuitive way to browse notes and to get a feeling for the relationships between your collected information.

      • dcchuck 1 day ago
        This is great! Thank you :heart:
    • transitorykris 40 minutes ago
      This is the first time I've encountered this. I want all footnotes to work this way! Otherwise I'm off into a rathole and never return. Love it.
  • BoostandEthanol 1 day ago
    Goes both ways. I had a phase of trying this and found I had to invest as much or more effort figuring out how to document stuff for the eyes of an outside observer as I did on the actual task. Guess maybe the answer in my case is to not make it accessible, but does that defeat the purpose?
    • orev 1 day ago
      Figuring out how to document stuff for others forces you to think things through at a deeper level yourself, and that’s the main point of the idea being presented here. Forcing yourself to organize your own thoughts is where the personal growth comes from.
    • stonogo 1 day ago
      I don't think it defeats the purpose. Your audience will find you. Once that happens, you will start getting feedback, and then you can decide how to handle that. Closing the door just means your audience can't find you in the first place.
  • alexpotato 2 hours ago
    I forget where I read this quote but have always loved it:

    "When I was a teenager, I read about all of these Bay Area guys that launched startups from their garage.

    I thought 'Man, those guys must be really tough!'. Why? Because I'm from Canada and working in garages in the winter is really cold."

  • Animats 1 hour ago
    I used to do that for physical projects in the TechShop days. It helped, a little.
  • emehrkay 1 hour ago
    I really like this website and how the articles stack when you click internal links
  • singpolyma3 1 day ago
    This is one of the core spirits of open source
  • mannanj 1 hour ago
    I have resistance to sharing work in a way that also still protects my interest in monetizing and profiting from the work eventually. How do you all balance this? In a startup bootcamp they asked us to not worry about theft, though I feel its borderline gullible and naive to share some things.
  • booleandilemma 1 day ago
    I don't know if I trust this as much as I did in the past. There's lots of competition out there. Lots of AI companies that want to slurp up data. It's a nice warm and fuzzy thing to say but I don't think it helps you, it just helps competitors get the jump on you.
    • simonw 1 day ago
      Fear of AI companies "slurping up data" being used as a rationale for not sharing anything is one of the most underrated harms of the whole current AI mess.
      • dimes 1 day ago
        It’s not a fear. It’s reality. It’s literally happening on HN right now.

        Take this game, for example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47698455

        Within an hour, someone had cloned the game with addition mechanics that multiple people mentioned they like more: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47729573

        • simonw 1 day ago
          That's not an AI company "slurping up data", that's someone using AI tools to accelerate their own personal clone of a project.
          • booleandilemma 1 day ago
            I think you're missing the point. The game (no pun intended?) has changed. Working with the garage door up has become a liability.
            • simonw 1 day ago
              Doesn't feel particularly different to me, I've been publishing my side projects as open source code on GitHub for over a decade.

              The effort required to adapt them has dropped, but I've always exposed them to being adapted.

              • dimes 1 day ago
                > Doesn't feel particularly different to me

                > The effort required to adapt them has dropped

                AI is an entirely different situation because the effort required to copy has dropped by multiple orders of magnitude. You used to be able to build in the open without worrying about copycats because the vast majority of people didn’t want to spend the effort. Now (with AI), even someone with the slightest, most fleeting whim can copy your work.

                It’s great that you’re open to being adapted. There’s nothing wrong with that. But if you’re not open to having your ideas outright taken, then it’s not safe to build in the open any longer.

                • simonw 1 day ago
                  If I cared about people copying my projects and ideas I wouldn't put them on GitHub with a liberal open source license.
      • booleandilemma 1 day ago
        I completely agree. Honestly I wish we could go back to before AI. I don't like where it's taking us at all. Changing how we write code is just the beginning. Next we'll be replacing humans altogether. I've already had an interview with a soulless "AI recruiter" bot. We can't go back now of course, but one can dream.
  • throwpoaster 1 day ago
    I recommend running this by legal if you are funded, however, I am not a lawyer.
  • tristor 1 day ago
    I'm kind of disappointed that this is about social media presence and not the physical world. I am a big proponent of working with your garage door up, quite literally, and I make it a point to do projects in my garage or my driveway, visible to my neighbors. I also make it a point to interact with my neighbors if they're doing a project and offer a hand or company (if they're interested in either). This is part of how I've built community around me in the places I live. Doing things like helping someone replace a valve cover gasket and spark plugs at 11PM so they could get to work in the morning when they were already too deep in fixing their only car; baking bread and running my smoker in the driveway and then offering BBQ sandwiches to my neighbors; setting up my jobsite table saw and miter saw in the driveway when doing home improvement projects, only to find out a neighbor is a tiler and can help me finish out my shower after I do the framing; etc.

    I have found a lot of value in being open to other people, when I'm actively engaged in something. It's not even about displaying competence or showing off (which is how I look at people doing the same on social media), it's about doing your own thing in a way which is inviting rather than offputting, so if somebody wants to ask questions, give a helping hand, or just feel comfortable doing their own thing in a way that's inviting, you help create that sense of community and ambience around you. This is a stark contrast to many places around, at least the US, where something as simple as working on your car in your driveway might be punished. Community is built, and we're all part of it, and working in the open is one of the best ways to help build community.

    To that point, though, there /used/ to be a place to do this online in an honest way, which was niche forums. I wrote and posted many of the how-to guides for one of the popular cheap enthusiast car platforms I used to own on the niche webforum for that platform, in part because there wasn't much material out there so I knew I'd actively be helping others to document and photograph my work for sharing online. But now those forums are mostly gone, replaced by Facebook groups, and across the net the signal to noise ratio is completely skewed. Trying to work in the open online is screaming into the void, and if someone does notice it is actively offputting because it comes off as insincere and self-aggrandizing. It is absolutely not the same as literally working with your garage door open.

    • nemomarx 1 day ago
      This works pretty well for physical projects but I think coding in your garage with the door open would not invite a lot of conversation or connection?

      Maybe it would be a nice wfh office in the summer, though.

  • chromacity 2 hours ago
    [dead]
  • jdrormdj 1 day ago
    Could someone from california explain "garage door up" reference? Is it like pretending to be early apple or HP, and starting chip factory on backyard reference? Or some sort of open door policy?

    I just do not get it. If you own a house, you have $1m capital to deploy towards business. You do not have to invite random people and dogs from street, to steal or pee on your expensive equipment.

    If you actually have serious workshop like restoring cars or building something, rent a warehouse. HOAs have strict rules about chemicals, noise and vans parked on drive way!

    And if your goal is to reach people, there is much better way to do that!

    • somehnguy 1 day ago
      I believe you may be overthinking it a tad. I take it just to mean "work in the open".

      As an example - at my home unless the weather is poor I always leave my garage door up when working on something, whether vehicles or other projects.

      This is mainly for sunlight and fresh air but the end result is the same. Any neighbor or passerby can see what I'm doing, and in rare cases may actually be able to help or offer advice.

      • jdrormdj 1 day ago
        I get leaving garage door open, just for ventilation, but I always lock the main gate on driveway.

        Letting random people to freely roam around workshop seems incredible reckless, dangerous, and like a pending lawsuit! The glassworkhop referenced earlier is working with liquid that is over 1500c! It can amputate a hand in seconds! The same with carpentry, my circular saw does not even have a safety conductivity switch!

        • defrost 1 hour ago
          > The glassworkhop referenced earlier is working with liquid that is over 1500c!

          Nonsense, you might want to check both the liquid and the temp claims with an actual glass blower.

          That quibble aside, glass is a joy in the sense that it doesn't spit and doesn't stick to the skin unlike molten metal.

          Further, I know many glassblowers who have worked small hot shops for decades with members of the public mere feet away, several with no barriers to stop the public from reaching out to grab hot glass ... something that still hasn't happened to any that I've heard of / reported on group, etc.

        • criddell 1 day ago
          You're thinking way too literally.
        • somehnguy 1 day ago
          There is a massive difference between leaving the door open so people can come in and talk versus paying no attention to them commandeering your dangerous tools. Again I think you're overthinking it.
        • fwip 1 day ago
          It's about leaving it open while you're working. You'd still close it when you're not around.

          There is not much danger that a random person will come into your garage and put their hand under your circular saw while you are working it.

    • IncandescentGas 1 day ago
      > If you actually have serious workshop like restoring cars or building something, rent a warehouse. HOAs have strict rules about chemicals, noise and vans parked on drive way!

      I'd never buy a home in a HOA, because I don't need this guy telling me how I can use my garage. City ordinances are already good enough, when it comes to sane noise and parking rules.

    • criddell 1 day ago
      I think "garage door up" means "in the open".