MAGA Is Winning Its War Against U.S. Science

(paulkrugman.substack.com)

66 points | by devonnull 4 hours ago

12 comments

  • MrGilbert 4 hours ago
    I cannot help but wonder how many decades it will take the U.S. to recover from the damage that the current administration is causing, both economically and in trust on a global scale. While in no way comparable, as a German, that topic feels familiar non the less - and to this day, it's a long and rocky road.
    • bryanlarsen 1 hour ago
      The US got to its preeminent position because the rest of the world screwed things up badly, and the US played a key role in rescuing it. Hopefully we never again see a global conflict on the scale of WW2, so hopefully the US never again is in a position to gain the rewards from rescuing the world.
    • PigeonHolePncpl 3 hours ago
      Economically? No idea.

      Global trust? I'd give it 20-40 years.

      • tim333 1 hour ago
        Maybe they could elect someone normal next time around?
        • rolph 18 minutes ago
          the big problem we have is we really dont nominate candidates publicly, there is a process the party goes through vetting nominees.

          when the public voting occurs there is a line up of some familiar and some a case of who is that from where?

          recently it has been, "really? is that the best candidate that party has to proffer? they both did it, now what?"

      • surgical_fire 3 hours ago
        That presumes a sharp correction in the direction the US is heading, whatever it is.

        Is that a given?

        • bediger4000 34 minutes ago
          No. Sure, MAGA Republicans are only 25-30% of the population, but most of the people share at least some beliefs that would hold the entire nation back. There's widespread economic illiteracy, that leads to people generally favoring monopolies, and not believing in economy of scale in some circumstances. It's an article of faith that the press has a liberal bias. Lots of people distrust elections. There are lots of authoritarians, which is the fertile ground that let Trump take power in the first place.
    • burnt-resistor 2 hours ago
      Much of the damage is irreparable. Organizations that no longer exist have lost workers, other stakeholders, resources, and trust permanently.. and in cases like USAID and healthcare, people have suffered permanent injuries or died.

      These clueless assholes don't care about or understand the implications of the damage they've caused... they're gangs of criminals rapists and pillagers scorching the earth and leaving chaos and destruction in their wake.

    • bestouff 3 hours ago
      I'm not even sure the Nazi regime was that much anti-science.
      • karmakurtisaani 3 hours ago
        A lot of great scientists left Europe because of them tho.
        • burnt-resistor 2 hours ago
          True. And they forced some scientists to work for them to build terror and WMDs. This regime doesn't even want technological supremacy in many other domains like drones and counter-drones except maybe hypersonic missiles and unworkable pocket battleships.
  • jaybrendansmith 2 hours ago
    Again, I don't understand why this post is flagged. Don't hackers care about science? Isn't this newsworthy?
    • apothegm 1 hour ago
      I have some theories about that,but they sound a bit paranoid if not tinfoil hattish.
    • jmye 2 hours ago
      [flagged]
    • carefree-bob 2 hours ago
      [flagged]
      • jmusall 1 hour ago
        How is it partisan political flamebait? While the title and opening paragraph might be exaggerated and not exactly neutral (which is even admitted right after), the rest of the article contains what looks to me like well-researched facts.
      • jauntywundrkind 2 hours ago
        It's an article about partisan flamethrowering America greatest bestest institutions and people.

        It's just inconvenient for people desperate to maintain their constructed hyperreality.

        Sleepers, you need to wake up.

      • ratrace 2 hours ago
        [dead]
  • jruohonen 4 hours ago
    From the liked NBER study:

    "Between 58 and 68 percent of citations to Chinese publications come from other Chinese publications, even for breakthrough work. This contrasts sharply with other regions, where cross-border citation rates are substantially higher."

    https://www.nber.org/digest?page=1&perPage=50

    • 3eb7988a1663 4 hours ago
      Surely English fluency is somewhat relevant.
    • surgical_fire 3 hours ago
      Interesting.

      I wonder if within my lifetime it is possible that Chinese will become the main language one has to learn to be on top of things, with English becoming more niche.

      These shifts happen slowly I presume. There was a point where a lot of people learned French as a lingua franca, and it transitioned to English over decades.

    • zb3 4 hours ago
      The more Chinese publications, the bigger share of their citation rates, right?
  • andretti1977 4 hours ago
    … “Ignorance is strength” might was well be an official MAGA motto…
  • rolph 4 hours ago
    not according to this article. the attempt is to defund research, gov can make money out of thin air to an extent, but not indefinately, and it has to be paid for in real terms.

    private interests have greater actual holdings than gov.

    "they" are not winning, they are chasing a major provider of high standard of living, right out the door.

  • readthenotes1 3 hours ago
    How is this affecting the replicability crisis?
  • jmclnx 4 hours ago
    China is increasing funding, US is cutting funding so this will only help China.
  • rootusrootus 4 hours ago
    As is so typical in politics, whether it is countries, parties, or legislation, irony dominates the naming. Democratic People's Republic of Korea, PATRIOT act, MAGA, the list goes on.
  • gverrilla 4 hours ago
    Absolutely deleting progress.
  • wileydragonfly 4 hours ago
    NIH grant funding is still down about 35% and they’re lying about it. They’re not updating Reporter fully so the director has been able to obfuscate it. Graduate programs are reducing admissions and I imagine fewer potential scientists are interested in the PhD path given “current situation.” So I imagine it’s going to take several “good” years to undo what’s been done.
  • nis0s 3 hours ago
    I hate that it happened because of a political reason, and many topics affected were unnecessarily targeted, but it’s 1000% true that many labs were overfunded, and accumulated resources which were essentially spent on ego bullshit. There need to be more cuts and selective funding of research labs, in general. Sadly, funding R1 does not guarantee that you’re going to get anything meaningful from that research as a non-trivial number of PIs just used excessive funding to bloat up their numbers to appear politically important, like middle managers at FAANG. So, essentially creating an adult daycare with no regards to output or impact. This needs to stop, and spending needs to be allocated responsibly. Lab impact needs to be assessed on regular (2-yr seems reasonable) basis, and then funding needs to be diverted to new or better players.