I might be the only one, but it's still to this date (and dating all the way back to 2014 with the first iMac 5k display) Apple is the only company that truly gets HIDPI desktop displays with high quality gloss and 200+ ppi at screen this large. In the meantime popular and widely sold gaming screens with matte blur filters and mediocre ppi give me headache and eye fatigue after a few hours of use. Prior generation Studio Display is the only external display that truly worked for text heavy work with my eyes (including software engineering), and I'm sure the latest generation is fantastic as well.
The hardware is great, but the software is lacking. macOS only supports resolution-based scaling which makes anything but the default 200% pixel scaling mode look bad. For example, with a 27" 4K display many users will want to use 150% or 175% scaling to get enough real estate, but the image will look blurry because macOS renders at a higher resolution and then downscales to the 4K resolution of the screen.
Both Windows and Linux (Wayland) support scaling the UI itself, and with their support for sub-pixel anti-aliasing (that macOS also lacks) this makes text look a lot more crisp.
I would love to see examples of this. I have a MBP and a 24" 4K Dell monitor connected via HDMI. I use all kinds of scaled resolutions and I've never noticed anything being jagged or blurry.
Meanwhile in Linux the scaling is generally good, but occasionally I'll run into some UI element that doesn't scale properly, or some application that has a tiny mouse cursor.
And then Windows has serious problems with old apps - blurry as hell with a high DPI display.
Subpixel antialiasing isn't something I miss on macOS because it seems pointless at these resolutions [0]. And I don't think it would work with OLED anyway because the subpixels are arranged differently than a typical conventional LCD.
[0] I remember being excited by ClearType on Windows back in the day, and I did notice a difference. But there's no way I'd be able to discern it on a high DPI display; the conventional antialiasing macOS does is enough.
I have a Macbook pro and a Linux machine attached to my dual 4k monitors.
Fonts on Linux (KDE Plasma on Wayland) look noticeably sharper than the Mac. I don't use subpixel rendering either. I hate that I have to use the Mac for work.
This is correct and also increasingly affecting me as my eyes age. I had to give my Studio Display to my wife because my eyes can't focus at a reasonable distance anymore, and if I moved back further the text was too small to read. I ran the 5K Studio Display at 4K scaled for a bit but it was noticeably blurry.
This would've been easily solved with non-integer scaling, if Apple had implemented that.
(I now use a combo of 4K TV 48" from ~1.5-2 metres back as well as a 4K 27" screen from 1 m away, depending on which room I want to work in. Angular resolution works out similarly (115 pixels per degree).)
All through the 2000s Apple developed non-integer scaling support in various versions of MacOS X under the banner of “resolution independence” - the idea was to use vectors where possible rather than bitmaps so OS UI would look good at any resolution, including non-integer scaling factors.
Some indie Mac developers even started implementing support for it in anticipation of it being officially enabled. The code was present in 10.4 through 10.6 and possibly later, although not enabled by default. Apple gave up on the idea sadly and integer scaling is where we are.
Here’s a developer blog from 2006 playing with it:
There was even documentation for getting ready to support resolution independence on Apple’s developer portal at one stage, but I sadly can’t find it today.
Here’s a news post from all the way back in 2004 discussing the in development feature in Mac OS tiger:
Lots of of folks (myself included!) in the Mac software world were really excited for it back then. It would have permitted you to scale the UI to totally arbitrary sizes while maintaining sharpness etc.
Yep, I played with User Interface Resolution app myself back then in uni. The impact of Apple's choice to skip non-integer scaling didn't hit me until a few years ago when my eyes started to fail...
> This is correct and also increasingly affecting me as my eyes age. I had to give my Studio Display to my wife because my eyes can't focus at a reasonable distance anymore, and if I moved back further the text was too small to read.
> (I now use a combo of 4K TV 48" from ~1.5-2 metres back as well as a 4K 27" screen from 1 m away, depending on which room I want to work in. Angular resolution works out similarly (115 pixels per degree).)
The TV is likely a healthier distance to keep your eyes focused on all day regardless, but were glasses not an option?
If you can get used to using it (which really just requires some practice), the screen magnifier on Mac is fantastic and most importantly it’s extremely low latency (by this I mean, it reacts pretty much instantly when you want to zoom in or out).
Once you get used to flicking in and out of zoom instead of leaning into the monitor it’s great.
As an aside, Windows and Linux share this property too nowadays. Using the screen magnifiers is equally pleasant on any of these OSes. I game on Linux these days and the magnifier there even works within games.
> For example, with a 27" 4K display many users will want to use 150% or 175% scaling to get enough real estate, but the image will look blurry
I use a Mac with a monitor with these specs (a Dell of some kind, I don't know the model number off the top of my head), at 150% scaling, and it's not blurry at all.
4K pixels is not enough at 27" for Retina scaling.
Apple uses 5K panels in their 27" displays for this reason.
There are several very good 27" 5K monitors on the market now around $700 to $800. Not as cheap as the 4K monitors but you have to pay for the pixel density.
There are also driver boards that let you convert 27" 5K iMacs into external monitors. I don't recommend this lightly because it's not an easy mod but it's within reason for the motivated Hacker News audience.
If your Mac goes bad it can be worthwile. My friend gave me his pre-Retina 27" iMac, part of the circa-2008 generation of Macs whose GPUs all failed.
I removed all the computing hardware but kept the Apple power supply, instead of using the cheapo one that came with the LCD driver board I bought. I was able to find the PWM specs for the panel, and installed a cheap PWM module with its own frequency & duty-cycle display to drive it and control brightness.
The result is my daily desktop monitor. Spent way too much time on it, but it works great!
Yeah this is correct, I don't know why you're being downvoted. The decisions Apple made when pivoting their software stack to high-DPI resulted in Macs requiring ultra-dense displays for optimal results - that's a limitation of macOS, not an indictment of less dense displays, which Windows and Linux accommodate much better.
I bought that original 5k iMac on release day in 2014. I was thrilled with that display, and stoked to see the entire display industry go the route of true quadruple-resolution just like smartphone displays did.
Sadly, it basically never happened. There was the LG display that came out a couple of years later. It didn't have great reviews, and it was like two thirds the cost of an entire 5k iMac.
It took Apple over 7 years to release their standalone 5k display, and there are a few other true 5k displays (1440p screen real estate with quadruple-resolution, not the ultrawide 2160p displays branded as "5k") on the market now with prices just starting to drop below 1,000 USD.
Unfortunately in that time I've gotten used to the screen real estate of the ultrawide 1440p monitors (which are now ubiquitous, and hitting ridiculous sub-$300 prices). As of now, my perfect display for office work (gaming, video/photo work, or heavy media playback are different topics) would be 21:9 with 1440p screen real estate with quadruple-resolution—essentially just a wider version of that original 5k iMac display.
I bought an LG Ultrafine 5k at the time and felt kind of stupid for being spending on it. But nearly 10 years later... its still my daily driver. Best ROI of any tech equipment I've bought. It changed my mind about how to think about it, not just the monitor, but having speaker / camera / mac built in, and all over one cable, its been such a joy when I bounce around the house to be able to plugin / unplug so easily; or when I swap from work to personal laptop. Its such a simple setup. Im definitely considering the Apple one, basically regardless of what it costs, once its time. Its simply been too convenient to have a one-plug solution for the laptop that has everything I need, never breaks (my LG may be exception here lol), and that has somehow taken forever to be super ceded by something better.
Only thing that holds back that thought lately is, I'm suddenly spending more and more time in multi-pane terminals, and my screen real estate needs have dropped. The only two things I greatly miss now on my laptop is keyboard quality and general comfort (monitor height, etc).
The iMac Pro is nearly 9 years old at this point. At the time, there was no other option for a retina-quality 27" display, but you could get a 4k 27" for $400.
A decade later, it boggles my mind that it's so hard to find a retina-class desktop monitor. The successor to the Cinema Display is basically an iMac, and priced like it. There have very recently been releases from ASUS and BenQ, but it still feels like an underserved niche, rather than standard expectation.
It was also really disappointing to see 24" 4k displays disappear from the market instead of becoming the new standard resolution for that size. A few years ago, there were several options including a cheap LG that was usually around $300 or less. Those all seem to be gone, likely for good, even though there are still plenty of 24" displays with 1080p and even a fair number with 1440p.
Indeed. I’m holding on to my 24” Dell P2415Q that I got like 10 years ago because it’s the perfect size for my desk and there just isn’t anything in that size to replace it with.
I've been very pleased with my ViewSonic VP2488-4K. A little steep for $550, but if you spend any significant time in front of the screen I think it's very much worth it. I'm planning to buy a second one.
The LG UltraFine's were garbage, but got better over time as either the firmware improved or macOS added drivers that worked around the nonsense. For a while I ran with two of them on an iMac Pro with a 5K itself, but switched to a single Pro Display XDR with a laptop eventually. I'm very sad to see the 6K/32" form disappear, it's by far the best screen I've ever used.
There’s a solid use case for matte screens. I use an 800R curved monitor and there’s absolutely no way that would work for me if it wasn’t matte. I know this because when I glance over at my coworker’s 1200R glossy screen it’s like looking in a funhouse mirror.
Because monitors aren't simple. There are dozens of axes along which they can be scaled.
They have resolution (1080p FHD, 1440p QHD, 4K, 5K, 6K, 8K), aspect ratio (16:9, 8:5, 4:3, 3:2, 21:9, 32:9), refresh rate (60 Hz, 75 Hz, 120 Hz, 144 Hz, 165 Hz, 240 Hz, 360 Hz, 480 Hz, 1 kHz, and of course adaptive refresh rate tech including G-Sync), colour quality (depth and accuracy), contrast ratios for HDR, panel technology (LCD-TN, LCD-IPS, LCD-VA, OLED, QD-OLED, WOLED, and now RGB stripe OLED), backlight technology (CCFL, edge-lit LED, miniLED, microLED), connectivity (HDMI/DP, USB-B, USB-C, DP alt mode, Thunderbolt, 3.5 mm, and KVMs).
It's very hard to stuff all this information in one neat model number.
On the consumer's part it makes sense to understand these features and what is necessary for one's use case, filter monitors by said features, and note down the model numbers that satisfy the requirements.
I feel like they do it deliberately, so that you can’t easily research their products and find if they are out of date. They can sell you a monitor from 2012 as if it’s brand new, because you have no idea what it is.
> So apple is just selling generic white labelled slop
There are only ~5 flat-panel manufacturers worldwide: AU Optronics, Innolux, LG Display, Samsung Display, Sharp Display, and recently BOE Display. Apple has to use one of these, even for its bespoke, notched, curved iPhone/iPad displays.
This new 5K 2304-zone panel was developed by LG Display, and is not 'generic white-labelled slop' by any means. It is an extremely good panel in its own right, probably the bleeding edge of LCD technology today achieving top-notch responsiveness, contrast, and colour depth and accuracy.
That MSI monitor will probably retail for ~£800 as will the Asus and LG equivalents, which is not a trivial amount for a monitor. Apple just marked it up 3×, as they are prone to do for anything.
The Apple monitor will likely have better speakers, and I'm not even sure the others will have microphones at all. Apple also does a better job with color accuracy/consistency, at least historically. There's still a sizeable markup, but it's not entirely for nothing.
Back in the day (~15 years ago), when 4K monitors were unheard of and even Apple's high-end displays were still 1440p, you could get a bottom-dollar monitor using one of their panels (e.g. Yamakasi Catleap Q270) for about a third of the price. However, it came with no amenities, a single connector (dual-link DVI only), a questionably legal power cable, and no built-in scaling. The vendors, presumably to prevent refunds, even asked for your graphics card model before selling it to you, because it wouldn't work with low-end cards. Oh, and there were very few in the U.S., so you were typically getting them shipped straight from abroad, customs duties and all.
Does gloss mean reflective? Like where I can see the room lights reflecting off my screen. I never considered the possibility that someone might consider that a good thing.
In an environment with little to no reflections, gloss looks so much better. It becomes truly transparent with no distraction. Matte displays always have a little frost to them.
If you do most of your computing in a prepared or controlled room, I can see the logic in that, although I think I'm not personally nearly sensitive enough to care.
For me though, I am frequently working in different rooms with arbitrary lighting situations. Net effect of the gloss is negative for me unquestionably.
What kind of environment is that? Maybe if you're a black person wearing black clothes, no glasses (maybe contacts are ok?) in a room with closed curtains, no lights and nothing reflective, sure.
I used to daily drive an apple thunderbolt display (the last non-retina one, 2560x1440). That thing was atrocious. I could often see the reflections of my glasses, or a white glare if I was wearing a white shirt. At nigh, in a dark office (lights off, just whatever came in from the street).
I'm typing this on a matte "ips black" dell ultrasharp something-or-other at 10% brightness, wearing glasses, a white t-shirt, with an overhead light, and see no reflection or glare on my screen. There's no way in hell I'd go back to a shiny screen.
I understand "anti-glare" technology has improved. The most recent apple screen I've tested is an m1 mbp. It seems somewhat better than my 2013 mbp, but still a worse experience than my 2015 (or thereabouts) 24"@4k dell, which is pretty old technology. My 2025 lenovo has a screen that's much more confortable to use inside.
Paradoxically, I'd say the one environment where I prefer my macs to my matte screens is in bright sunlight. Sure, there are more reflections than you can shake a stick at, but there's always an angle where you can see the part of the screen you want. You have to move around, which is obviously annoying, but you can see. The matte screens just turn to mush. Luckily for me, I hate being out in the sun, so I never encounter this situation in practice.
I think the "frost" you're talking about depends a lot on the screen implementation. I tested once an HP model, 27"@4k, and it did have such an effect. Anecdotally, it didn't handle reflections all that well, either. So maybe it's just a question of lower quality product?
Personally, I can't handle glossy displays, trying to read with reflections gives me a headache. Most other manufacturers offer both glossy and matte, except for Apple, because they know better.
Not anymore, as long as you make sure that any RGB antialiasing is turned off. Linux defaluts to disabling this and doing only grayscale antialiasing, so it looks great on an OLED out of the box. Windows can be configured to do this.
> In the meantime popular and widely sold gaming screens with matte blur filters and mediocre ppi give me headache and eye fatigue after a few hours of use.
I presume you also mean "when used for text heavy work" here, yes? Or do you mean that these displays tire out your eyes even when used "for what they're for", i.e. gaming? (Because that's a very interesting assertion if so, and I'd like to go into depth about it.)
I have an ASUS ProArt Display 27” 5K. And I somewhat regret it.
I love the pixel density. But I don’t love the matte finish. Which is apparently a controversial take. But I really don’t. I like the crisp pop of typography you get with a glossy display. And, for UI design, the matte finish just doesn’t “feel” like the average end-user experience. I am constantly pushing Figma between my laptop display and my monitor to better simulate what a design will look like on an average glossy LCD or OLED display.
LG used to with the Ultrafine 5k (I believe it's discontinued now?)
I got a deal on a used one last year and I love it. It's the only monitor I've used plugged into a MacBook that didn't look notably off (worse) compared to the MacBook's display sitting next to it. Only thing a bit jarring is it's 60Hz but I can live with it.
I constantly see people saying Apple displays are a terrible value. Last Apple display I had was the Thunderbolt 27 but from now on I'm sticking with Apple.
I've had nothing but issues with non-Apple monitors as well. Customer service ime is non-existent if you need a repair. For something I rely on to get work done, I'm starting to think the premium is worth it.
> Apple is the only company that truly gets HIDPI desktop displays with high quality gloss and 200+ ppi at screen this large.
And somehow they completely forgot how to seamlessly work with displays in general. Connect multiple displays via Thunderbolt? Nope. Keep layouts when switching displays? No. Running any display at more than 60Hz? No. Remember monitor positions? No.
I have an Alienware AW2721D and my M series Macs have no problem driving it at 240hz. macOS picks up that it’s a GSync display and supports VRR on it too.
How many 27” 5k 120hz+ high PPI are shipping right now? Reddit is particularly clowning on this for the refresh rate and completely ignoring the resolution.
This is a workstation-class monitor for people using these machines to make money. It's not a gamer toy monitor. People on Reddit don't get this. Apple's monitors are fantastic for those of us who use our computers to make money and need high quality. I am not playing video games on the same machine I use to make money.
(I think) what you are thinking of was something introduced around the Catalina>Big Sur transition, when the Pro Display XDR was introduced.
At the time, people were "marveling" at the magic of Apple, and wondering how they did the math to make that display work within bandwidth constraints.
The simple answer was "by completely fucking with DP 1.4 DSC".
I had at the time a 2019 (cheesegrater) Mac Pro. I had two Asus 27" 4K HDR 144Hz monitors, that the Mac had no problems driving under Catalina.
Install Big Sur. Nope. With the monitors advertising DP 1.4, my options were SDR@95Hz, HDR@60Hz. I wasn't the only one, hundreds of people complaining, different monitors, cards, cables.
I could downgrade to Catalina: HDR@144Hz sprung back to life.
Hell, I could on the monitors tell them to advertise DP 1.2 support, which actually improved performance, and I think I got SDR@120Hz, HDR@95Hz (IIRC).
So you don't deserve downvotes on this. Apple absolutely ignored standards and broke functionality for third party screens just to get the Pro Display XDR (which, ironically, I own, although now it's being driven by an M2 Studio, versus the space heater that was the Xeon cheesegrater).
Here’s some monitors you can buy at that price point:
- 6k 32” monitor (similar PPI) (Acer PE320QX)
- most high-end 4k displays (even OLEDs) with 144hz+ refresh rate
32” 4k isn’t great PPI, but it’s still fine PPI, at a reasonable distance. Double the refresh rate is a much more noticeable improvement to me than 40% better pixel density, at a distance where retina matters a bit less than laptops & handhelds. And you can get that for less than half the cost
Plus, you can get it with multiple outputs & KVM to switch between MacBook & PC. And still run it off a single USB C cable.
120 Hz vs 60 Hz? Night and day. Immediately noticeable just by moving the mouse pointer. Would expect improvements in scrolling to be apparent to even the most casual passers-by.
120 Hz can also noticeably improve frame pacing for 24p video*.
120 Hz vs 144 Hz? Barely noticeable when flipping between the two. Not sure if I'd pass an ABX test with 100% accuracy.
Can't speak for 240 Hz or higher, as I haven't used them.
* Though 119.88 Hz is probably a better default for this since most non-DCI "24p" video is still 23.976 FPS; this is changing, but until browsers and streaming apps support VRR for video, I'm not convinced this is a good thing due to the mountain of legacy 23.976 FPS content.
It's night and day when you're going back and forth between looking at them and wiggle your mouse around in circle. But after a few seconds of being focused on your work, you're not thinking about it anymore.
Being able to watch 24fps video without non-integer frame weirdness is the only real advantage outside of twitch-reaction gaming.
I disagree. 120hz makes typing, mousing, etc. noticeably more responsive. I never stop noticing it. I never liked having to use 60hz all the time once LCDs were replacing CRTs. The original iMac didn't even let you choose 60hz to run the desktop at -- it only offered higher refresh rates in the menus. (Games could set the display to 60hz if they really wanted to.)
I was hoping for OLED or dual-OLED based monitors, especially for this price point but I’d want this slightly lower than the XDR price. Sequoia+Tahoe seems like they’ve been laying the groundwork for OLED macs — removing the menu bar background and making text dynamically change colour, moving/cycling backgrounds, liquid glass reducing the effect of static UI elements, etc.
I personally wouldn’t buy a new LCD based display anymore at this price. There are flaws inherent to the technology that affect all of my recent Apple displays (Studio Display, M1 Pro iPad, M1 Pro MPB, M4 Pro MPB). After using OLED TVs and OLED iPhones for years, it’s very difficult to look past LCD’s issues (edge yellowing+dimming specifically affects all my Apple screens more than I am happy with).
There are no reviews/studies on long-term aging of Apple’s LCD displays, so all of this should be taken with a grain of salt, maybe my devices are just unlucky.
I don’t know if the Pro XDR line is better or how that would carry over to the Studio XDR. I haven’t seen many complains about the Pro XDR, but the Studio Display form factor has a different cooling design which would affect longevity.
I will say I can never go back from retina resolution text, and that alone has made the experience of Studio Display good. If we could get OLED it would be perfection. I think I would have to see the XDR in practice to be convinced, but 120hz requiring a whole new computer does make it a non-starter for me.
Along similar lines, there's no way I would buy an OLED at this price point. If I'm dropping $3k on a monitor, it needs to be a technology that lasts, not a technology that wears out over time.
Current gen OLEDs almost don't wear out (saying this as an OLED owner). To see the wear you need to have a completely black room and the wear is unnoticeable unless you're specifically looking for it. You don't need to spend 3k, 1k is enough.
I bought an LG 32" 4k OLED for $999 and it's hands down the best display I've ever used. No burn in even with lots of static browser/terminal windows for days and days. The fact that it's $3k and _not_ OLED is insulting.
I believe these monitors are meant for professionals, which means it is going to be used in bright office buildings. That means running the display at high brightness which is the worst case for OLED since they degrade faster at higher brightness. Quoting wikipedia:
> A US Department of Energy paper shows that the expected lifespans of OLED lighting products goes down with increasing brightness, with an expected lifespan of 40,000 hours at 25% brightness, or 10,000 hours at 100% brightness
> If I'm dropping $3k on a monitor, it needs to be a technology that lasts, not a technology that wears out over time.
I bought my OLED TV when fearmongering was the highest, and it still works perfectly with zero burn-ins. So it is definitely possible. I bought the tv 8 years ago.
It's mind-boggling that Apple is considering the base 27 inch Studio Display with the same 4 year old panel, but with some new accessories slapped on an "upgrade".
Oh, and if you want to utilize 120Hz on the XDR display, you're going to have to replace your perfectly functioning Mac.
> Mac models with M1, M1 Pro, M1 Max, M1 Ultra, M2, and M3 support Studio Display XDR at up to 60Hz. All other Studio Display XDR features are supported.
Can you point me to said list? All I could find was:
> Mac models with M1, M1 Pro, M1 Max, M1 Ultra, M2, and M3 support Studio Display XDR at up to 60Hz. All other Studio Display XDR features are supported.
And The Verge reports:
> There’s also support for adaptive sync that can adjust between 47Hz and 120Hz (if it’s connected to an M4 Mac or later, or the M5 iPad Pro)
I got an M3 Max and was strongly considering upgrading my old monitor, but if I can't do 120hz, I'll just wait until I upgrade my laptop as well.
There’s no list per-se. The MacBook Pro (2021 and later) is listed as supported. The M3 Pro and M3 Max are not listed as only supporting 60Hz while the M3 and M1 Pro are.
It’s quite possible this is running with a reduced color space (chroma subsampling). Degradation happens automatically based on available throughput and most people don’t notice.
I had no idea what it was for the longest time. As it turns out, macOS frequently enables it even when it’s unnecessary, and without any way to override.
I don't really see your point. The chips mentioned do not have enough bandwidth on display outputs to support the monitor at 6K@120Hz. If anything, I find it surprising that Apple supports running the display in 60Hz mode instead of telling people to go pound sand and buy new Macs.
I'm really after higher refresh rate than 60, but it seems it would cost me an arm, leg, both kidneys and my newborns to get it at 5k or more resolution.
I own this as well and while I appreciably the levelized cost, there is simply zero comparison to my gen 1 Studio Display. The gloss and shin on the Kuycon means it only works in dimmly lit rooms.
Nano texture in mixed lighting scenarios is worth every penny even on a lower resolution and lower refresh rate panel.
That's a hefty premium to pay to not also have high refresh or high nits but the higher density options are so thin there's not really much else to go for if getting the resolution density is the goal.
Pretty lame that the Studio Display with a height-adjustable stand is still 400 Euro more. My biggest regret is getting my Gen 1 Studio Display without.
Also the non-XDR is only a small upgrade otherwise, no 120Hz, no HDR, only Thunderbolt 5 and a new camera. Finally a downstream Thunderbolt port though.
VESA mounts are only a few bucks and give you even better height and tilt adjustment. You also get desk space back. I have a shorter desk (24" vs typical 30" depth) and I have two monitors and a laptop mounted on 3 VESAs and I can extend them so that the monitor edge is inline with the desk edge, giving me the same 24" that a 30" desk would have with a monitor stand.
Herman Miller's Jarvis [1]. I'm probably paying up for the brand, but I got it installed a few years ago (with the nano-textured Studio display), and it works beautifully.
> Also the non-XDR is only a small upgrade otherwise, no 120Hz, no HDR, only Thunderbolt 5 and a new camera. Finally a downstream Thunderbolt port though.
The camera is still 12MP but offers Desk View. Maybe this is a feature unlocked by the improved onboard A-series chip (A19?).
I wouldn't sniff too hard about Thunderbolt 5. Thunderbolt 5 doubles throughput to 80 Gbps from 40.
Would have loved refresh above 60Hz but then who's gonna get the XDR?
Super disappointed that the base model doesn't get 120hz. I own the old model and it's great, but I will have to look for an alternative 5k display with 120hz refresh rate. There are a few on the market now, and I won't pay 3.5k for 120hz.
I'm also a little bummed that they seem to have dropped the Pro Display XDR. I wanted a 32" display as the main display, and then use my existing two Studio Display vertically as secondary on each side.
I guess we're going to see how the support for DP Alt-Mode will be, as I'm not sure how much bandwidth that can provide, so 120Hz might be out of the question. But for now that has been a simple way to get around the lack of multiple display inputs, you just needed a separate KVM switch for it.
I just want to natively hook up a PS5 without capture card latency... I would've bought a Studio Display years ago but can't bring myself to purchase a $2000 device-locked monitor.
I've been pretty happy with my ASUS ProArt PA32QCV (32", 6k, but only 60Hz). Kinda infuriating that Apple doesn't let you adjust third-party monitor brightness though (and my work disallows apps like BetterDisplay).
Get a broken 27" iMac, rip out the guts, and slap in a converter board that adds a bunch of inputs. It's not nearly as difficult to build as most of the blogs make it out to be.
It had some coil whine initially but that has gone. There's a load of nonsense software in it but I just have it disconnected from the internet and only use it as a monitor. The web cam is not useful but I don't use that either.
This was a couple of years ago - I think that there are a lot more options available now?
I've tried the LG UltraFine and LG UltraGear (w/144hz) ... still went with the Studio Display. Expensive, but my previous Thunderbolt display gave me 12 solid years – hoping the SD does the same.
Edit: Also consider the price of speakers, camera, hub, power, and the "it just works" factor.
Most modern usb-c / tb seem to come in an integrated "dock" which provides power. But many provide a laughably low number.
Also, for some reason, many come with external power bricks for some reason, which are a special kind of PITA with their short, permanently attached cords.
Ultimately, I'm beholden to whatever I can get work to pay for, unless I want to pay out of pocket to subsidize the capex of a multi-trillion dollar conglomerate.
A lot of people are saying nice things about Kuycon displays, but no personal experience with those. Otherwise I think Asus has good offerings, cannot remember the name though
Also JapanNext offers a 6k screen for <$1000, but it hasn't started shipping yet to my knowledge
I can second this. I bought two of the 5K 27" ProArt monitors plus a Thunderbolt hub to be my home setup, all for less than the price of one Studio Display, and it has been working perfectly.
That was the one I'd heard of, but I was shocked to see how low the Amazon reviews are (3.8). A highly-rated review said it had horrible clarity, like a greasy phone screen.
I've been using an LG Ultrafine 27MD5KL-B for years, and it works pretty flawlessly once I set up BetterDisplay with it. This is my primary work setup, and I think I paid around a grand for at MicroCenter some time back. It has worked great.
It shouldn't be a struggle. If you need colour quality (e.g. content creation/consumption) get the Studio Display. If you need real estate (e.g. technical work or programming) get the Kuycon.
They could be considering the new high end display a different product rather than a refresh (for marketing purposes at least).
I recall the XDR being announced alongside the last Mac Pro redesign. No new Mac Pro yet, so maybe they’ll announce the new large display whenever that is announced?
The only monitor on the market of this size and resolution that I am aware of that has really high brightness and works well when I work outside on the terrace.
I vaguely recall an Apple rumor from the last few months about 3 new display model numbers, 2 of them being 27" and one of them being 32"... so still possible a Pro Display XDR refresh is on the horizon.
The pixel density is the same I believe - I guess their theory is that 5K is more fungible than a large 6K display since people looking for more real estate can daisy chain the 5K displays.
I have two 27" 5k displays (both more than 5 years old, so they're not HDR or 120Hz).
I know I'm privileged but my biggest issue with them isn't the HDR or 120Hz. It's that the seam between them causes me to not be able to use that "middle" real estate.
So I was side-eyeing a 6k display cuz it would have most of the benefits of a dual 4k but more real estate and more flexibility in windowing.
The curved displays also look quite promising (like the Neo G2), but not feeling like spending money when I have two perfectly good monitors that already work.
I’ve owned my nano-textured XDR since launch (with the stand), and I love it.
As the years have gone, the only upgrade I wished to have was 120 refresh for some very limited design work - but 120 really is still not widely adopted in most places anywhere, so it’s really a non-issue for me.
The new XDR is smaller, has a less ergo stand, and also loses the beautiful lattice etchings on the rear which I often admire.
The XDR was overdue for a refresh, it’s nice the price dropped some, but I won’t be upgrading for now.
I really can't believe they discontinued the Pro Display XDR.. what is wrong with them? A company the size of Apple, surely must have the resources to update it every couple of years.
I keep hoping someone will release a nice monitor that’s monitor shaped (16:10) instead of TV shaped (16:9). That’s part of why early 2000s Cinema Displays are so great. Not to mention the last great Mac laptop before it all went south — the 2015 MBP
As sort of a tangent, am I the only one who has had bad experiences doing what the woman in the press release is doing? Ya know, touching the laptop while it's connected to external devices via Thunderbolt and/or USB-C.
Sure, most of the time the cable seems secure enough to maintain connection when I accidentally nudge the laptop. But every once in a while, when I slightly shift the laptop here or there, flicker and everything goes batshit. The monitor loses connection, so maybe (depending on config) the laptop screen changes resolution and then eventually reconnects and flickers and changes back. Or the network drops out (if I'm connected to Ethernet over Thunderbolt). Or a program freaks out because the drive it was using disappeared. Or the laptop really freaks out and kernel panics.
Like I said, it doesn't happen a ton, but it's happened a handful of times over the years, just enough that now I always use an external mouse and keyboard with a docked laptop to avoid such nonsense.
I may (think that I) have a 29 year old mind, but my eyes are at least their true 49 years of age, so I don't feel like I could do anything less than a 32 inch monitor, especially if I'm paying a premium.
Show me an HDR display that is 2000 nits peak HDR calibrated 27" for under $3,300. Not a gaming monitor. Closest you can find is a lilliput UQ31 that has half the nits.
And which supports DICOM calibration, which normally costs you >$5k for a smaller (e.g. 21") display.
It's now vastly cheaper to buy a Mac and a 27" Studio Display XDR than it is to buy a single 21" DICOM display for your clinic. Heck, it's not much more expensive to buy two SD XDRs than to buy one standard DICOM display.
I feel like if they can profitably sell a Mini-LED in a $1400 14" Macbook Pro, they can find a way to sell a larger one in a 27" display for under $3300…
I have the last-gen Studio Display, pretty great during the day (the nano-texture is astonishing), but just looks like trash at night when the backlight overwhelms the blacks.
My guess was that the “Studio Display 2” would introduce Mini-LED, and then a “Pro Display 2” would have the high-refresh and maybe 32". Wake me up in five years, I guess.
I was curious to see the "Innovative DICOM Medical Imaging" section. I wouldn't have thought that Apple would be interested in niche applications like viewing radiology imaging, but I guess they're probably interested in any cost-insensitive market for these since they're so expensive.
At a local hospital the radiologists have been all Mac for a long long time. They refused to give it up and resisted all attempts to get them to switch. So it doesn’t surprise me at all.
Interesting, I would've guessed that they would've forcibly been on Windows since time immemorial.
Entirely unsurprised that someone would refuse to give up their workflow, though! I've rarely found a user with specific needs who wants to change literally anything else about their system, since what they have works for them.
It's probably an easy win for them. It also might have been a good target when they were ideating on specs. Having these pro certifications gives the devices a halo of premium quality.
Regular consumers probably don't buy these displays in bulk, when you can get very nice displays for less than half the price that are 98% the same on specs.
So targeting checkbox-compliance for places like hospital systems is probably an easy win to generating / keeping some long term contracts.
> you can get very nice displays for less than half the price that are 98% the same on specs.
Can you recommend any displays with PPI and brightness equivalent to the studio display, with 120Hz+ refresh rates? I was waiting for this announcement to buy a studio display because I thought they might bring 120Hz to the base model, but $3300 is a lot to spend on a single display. I have an original studio display and a high refresh rate 4K OLED monitor, and they are both compromises unfortunately.
I don't think you can get a DICOM-certified display at 5K and 27" for half the price. Probably like $1k less but that's it - and if you're a radiologist making $300k+ you're not going to want to cheap out on a display.
If you're a radiologist making $300k+ you're going to want to use certified displays so that you don't get sued for using non-approved devices for diagnostic use, and that's going to cost you maybe $6k for a 21" monitor.
Too small… I got used to my 4K Philips OLED 42" that I hung directly on the wall in front of my desk (no stand at all)… USB-C cable also charges the MacBook.
This size is so good to work with; so much screen estate.
I agree, and use a 55" LG OLED TV similarly. Got it on sale for $1,300.
Especially nice in a small apartment where I use the same display for video, gaming, and desktop.
No USB-C, but HDMI works better for long cable runs anyway, so I can keep my (non-laptop) computers in the other room and just "dock" my wireless input devices to a USB-C charger as needed.
Thunderbolt would be even worse, as even if I could somehow get Thunderbolt out of an Nvidia GPU, I'm not aware of any devices that would allow switching between multiple Thunderbolt inputs, and 4 sufficiently long optical Thunderbolt cables would probably cost more than the display itself.
As for crisp text, I'll replace it with a 120 Hz 8K display in a few years if the price is right. In the mean time, I value screen real estate far higher (and dislike multi-monitor setups).
You're using the pixels for something different than the target audience.
People who want a Studio Display want retina crispness. If you enjoy a 42" 4k, you're more concerned with real estate than image fidelity.
I'm happy with a 65" 4K TV in my living room, but a 4K 27" monitor is borderline too low-res for computer work. Same pixel count, but different use cases.
I think I’m absolutely the target audience: I’m a designer, programmer, animator. Crispness at 4k is still quite good at 1m distance from my face.
I’d buy it without hesitation if it came much, much larger.
Indeed! The big monitor is about 1m from me, the median a bit below my eyes. The laptop on which I type on sits in-between and the two screens align almost perfectly (optically). This setup works well for me and I feel it’s very ergonomic. That's why I can't go back to tiny (<32") screens anymore.
You could get something smaller but have it closer to your face than 1m?
The sort of “visual impact” a screen can have is mostly a combination of what percentage of your FOV it consumes.
People think they’ve got a bunch of screen real estate when they buy a big TV to use as a monitor… and then they use it a twice or more the distance of a regular monitor.
This looks like a new iMac Pro minus the computer. Its a shame they don't have anything where you can just dock your iPhone Pro to one of these to run macOS.
> Featuring extensive connectivity to support a variety of workflows, Studio Display XDR includes two Thunderbolt 5 ports and two USB-C ports.
That is not extensive connectivity. That’s the bare minimum one might credibly expect.
If I were to consider buying a display like this, I would want at least two and preferably more inputs and at least a DisplayPort input. Not everything in the world is USB-C, especially when discrete GPUs are involved.
If I had to guess, with so many devices (speakers, microphone, webcam) on top of any external ones you connect, having multiple inputs especially one that can't possibly connect your computer to those devices, is virtually guaranteeing that some users will complain that it doesn't work. I believe there is a similar reason why usb-c hubs rarely have downstream usb-c ports. When you do find one, they always have several reviews complaining that it doesn't work with 3 hard drives and 2 monitors plugged in.
If you can put up with wide curved panels the 49" variant of the Samsung Odyssey Neo G9 from 2021 offered HDR2000 as a 5120x1440 display (basically 2x27" 2560x1440).
I was heartbroken all of the flat panel normal aspect monitors in that family since have had other severe tradeoffs and it's only the curved ultrawides that were given the better specs.
wow, the prices have come down. I inherited the old Pro XDR display when my father passed away a couple of years ago: I think he paid $6K for the display and another $1K for the stand.
Off topic, but Apple seems to be dropping hardware costs / capability - relying more in subscription, app store, and cloud now? On an impulse buy, I bought the entry level MacBook Air at Best Buy about two months ago because it was $200 off list price. Amazingly capable laptop for $800.
> Studio Display XDR replaces Pro Display XDR and starts at $3,299 (U.S.) and $3,199 (U.S.) for education.
My father-in-law is a monitor engineer. He is insanely gifted. We were in a Taiwanese factory together years ago and I asked him what it would cost to build the Pro Display XDR today. I will never forget his answer…
My father-in-law is a monitor engineer. He is insanely gifted. We were in a Korean factory together years ago and I asked him what it would cost to build the Pro Display XDR today. I will never forget his answer…
Nope. Still does not. I have 2 macs on my desk and no simple way to connect them to a single Apple display! It's a glaring hole that to me suggests they have no idea who their market is for these.
I was until quite recently. Bought a cheap 4k panel to replace it. I was really sick of the number of adapters to keep it going, plus it was never particularly bright and had low contrast.
Not using, but I still have it. I get it running every couple of years and it's striking how dim it is compared to modern monitors. Yet I just can't bring myself to dispose of it or the 2007 Mac Pro it's attached to, despite them having absolutely zero utility.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Studio_Display#Technical... has a good table. The short story is the 2nd generation Studio Display has some minor noted user facing changes but isn't that big of a difference. The Studio Display XDR is a bit of a merge of that and the old Pro level feature set.
Few enough differences so that if I could get an old Studio Display at a discount, I would. But right now it seems the old one is still full price where it's available.
Is there any details on from whom Apple is sourcing the panel from? LG and MSI have both shown off 5K monitors at 165hz and 2304 dimming zones recently.
I said about two years back I’d wait to upgrade my 1080p monitor until Apple shipped a high refresh rate one. I knew the monkey’s paw would curl but at nearly $5000 CAD that’s a hard no.
Apple just doesn't seem to be hitting on all cylinders anymore. The price for this thing is outrageous compared to the competition, and the competition isn't lagging very far behind. It's certainly pretty and I'm sure it's an incredible piece of tech, but $1,600 on the low end and $3,600 on the high end is just not going to sell in this environment. While the competition has always started with the minimum viable product for a low price and iterated on the product, Apple's approach has been the opposite - maximum possible product and then try to iterate the price point down. The problem is that the competition is now encroaching on their product quality territory, and the offer doesn't seem as tempting. For example, see the ASUS Pro Art, which has arguably better specs with the addition of HDR10 for $799. Or the BenQ MA270S, which you can buy two of for $1,800.
So what? Any LCD also struggles with black levels. They have advantages and disadvantages. The point is more that Apple tries, like TV manufacturers, to hide the LCD designation by instead coming up with a creative but misleading acronym. "XDR" in this case. This never happens with OLED. Which shows that manufacturers believe that most people care more about black level contrast than maximum brightness.
So... it helps you understand that's the main selling point of the monitors is the range of brightness? XDR stands for "Extreme Dynamic Range" - not sure how that's misleading or why sticking "LCD" into the title helps anyone figure out what the features of the panel are as most LCDs have awful range.
Using OLED directly in names works because OLED panels inherently have common features like blacks, contrast, and lack of blooming over other panel types. They can have other aspects added in (e.g. tandem OLED or the like) but by saying it's OLED you include these base things without needing a unique term.
Saying other panels are LCD tells you next to nothing as there are so many types which can be paired in so many ways which can all have completely different characteristics. It's not a conspiracy to hide the truth that people must only want OLED displays, it's an attempt to say something rather than nothing in the name of the monitor so you know what it actually is beyond "not an OLED".
If it were about trying to hide something the subhead wouldn't say mini-LED.
Both Windows and Linux (Wayland) support scaling the UI itself, and with their support for sub-pixel anti-aliasing (that macOS also lacks) this makes text look a lot more crisp.
Meanwhile in Linux the scaling is generally good, but occasionally I'll run into some UI element that doesn't scale properly, or some application that has a tiny mouse cursor.
And then Windows has serious problems with old apps - blurry as hell with a high DPI display.
Subpixel antialiasing isn't something I miss on macOS because it seems pointless at these resolutions [0]. And I don't think it would work with OLED anyway because the subpixels are arranged differently than a typical conventional LCD.
[0] I remember being excited by ClearType on Windows back in the day, and I did notice a difference. But there's no way I'd be able to discern it on a high DPI display; the conventional antialiasing macOS does is enough.
[1] https://bjango.com/articles/macexternaldisplays2/
Fonts on Linux (KDE Plasma on Wayland) look noticeably sharper than the Mac. I don't use subpixel rendering either. I hate that I have to use the Mac for work.
This would've been easily solved with non-integer scaling, if Apple had implemented that.
(I now use a combo of 4K TV 48" from ~1.5-2 metres back as well as a 4K 27" screen from 1 m away, depending on which room I want to work in. Angular resolution works out similarly (115 pixels per degree).)
Some indie Mac developers even started implementing support for it in anticipation of it being officially enabled. The code was present in 10.4 through 10.6 and possibly later, although not enabled by default. Apple gave up on the idea sadly and integer scaling is where we are.
Here’s a developer blog from 2006 playing with it:
> https://redsweater.com/blog/223/resolution-independent-fever
There was even documentation for getting ready to support resolution independence on Apple’s developer portal at one stage, but I sadly can’t find it today.
Here’s a news post from all the way back in 2004 discussing the in development feature in Mac OS tiger:
> https://forums.appleinsider.com/discussion/45544/mac-os-x-ti...
Lots of of folks (myself included!) in the Mac software world were really excited for it back then. It would have permitted you to scale the UI to totally arbitrary sizes while maintaining sharpness etc.
> (I now use a combo of 4K TV 48" from ~1.5-2 metres back as well as a 4K 27" screen from 1 m away, depending on which room I want to work in. Angular resolution works out similarly (115 pixels per degree).)
The TV is likely a healthier distance to keep your eyes focused on all day regardless, but were glasses not an option?
Once you get used to flicking in and out of zoom instead of leaning into the monitor it’s great.
As an aside, Windows and Linux share this property too nowadays. Using the screen magnifiers is equally pleasant on any of these OSes. I game on Linux these days and the magnifier there even works within games.
I use a Mac with a monitor with these specs (a Dell of some kind, I don't know the model number off the top of my head), at 150% scaling, and it's not blurry at all.
4K pixels is not enough at 27" for Retina scaling.
Apple uses 5K panels in their 27" displays for this reason.
There are several very good 27" 5K monitors on the market now around $700 to $800. Not as cheap as the 4K monitors but you have to pay for the pixel density.
There are also driver boards that let you convert 27" 5K iMacs into external monitors. I don't recommend this lightly because it's not an easy mod but it's within reason for the motivated Hacker News audience.
I removed all the computing hardware but kept the Apple power supply, instead of using the cheapo one that came with the LCD driver board I bought. I was able to find the PWM specs for the panel, and installed a cheap PWM module with its own frequency & duty-cycle display to drive it and control brightness.
The result is my daily desktop monitor. Spent way too much time on it, but it works great!
Sadly, it basically never happened. There was the LG display that came out a couple of years later. It didn't have great reviews, and it was like two thirds the cost of an entire 5k iMac.
It took Apple over 7 years to release their standalone 5k display, and there are a few other true 5k displays (1440p screen real estate with quadruple-resolution, not the ultrawide 2160p displays branded as "5k") on the market now with prices just starting to drop below 1,000 USD.
Unfortunately in that time I've gotten used to the screen real estate of the ultrawide 1440p monitors (which are now ubiquitous, and hitting ridiculous sub-$300 prices). As of now, my perfect display for office work (gaming, video/photo work, or heavy media playback are different topics) would be 21:9 with 1440p screen real estate with quadruple-resolution—essentially just a wider version of that original 5k iMac display.
Only thing that holds back that thought lately is, I'm suddenly spending more and more time in multi-pane terminals, and my screen real estate needs have dropped. The only two things I greatly miss now on my laptop is keyboard quality and general comfort (monitor height, etc).
A decade later, it boggles my mind that it's so hard to find a retina-class desktop monitor. The successor to the Cinema Display is basically an iMac, and priced like it. There have very recently been releases from ASUS and BenQ, but it still feels like an underserved niche, rather than standard expectation.
All that is to say: hard cosign.
Edge use case I know.
Why can't it be something simple?
Because monitors aren't simple. There are dozens of axes along which they can be scaled.
They have resolution (1080p FHD, 1440p QHD, 4K, 5K, 6K, 8K), aspect ratio (16:9, 8:5, 4:3, 3:2, 21:9, 32:9), refresh rate (60 Hz, 75 Hz, 120 Hz, 144 Hz, 165 Hz, 240 Hz, 360 Hz, 480 Hz, 1 kHz, and of course adaptive refresh rate tech including G-Sync), colour quality (depth and accuracy), contrast ratios for HDR, panel technology (LCD-TN, LCD-IPS, LCD-VA, OLED, QD-OLED, WOLED, and now RGB stripe OLED), backlight technology (CCFL, edge-lit LED, miniLED, microLED), connectivity (HDMI/DP, USB-B, USB-C, DP alt mode, Thunderbolt, 3.5 mm, and KVMs).
It's very hard to stuff all this information in one neat model number.
On the consumer's part it makes sense to understand these features and what is necessary for one's use case, filter monitors by said features, and note down the model numbers that satisfy the requirements.
There are only ~5 flat-panel manufacturers worldwide: AU Optronics, Innolux, LG Display, Samsung Display, Sharp Display, and recently BOE Display. Apple has to use one of these, even for its bespoke, notched, curved iPhone/iPad displays.
This new 5K 2304-zone panel was developed by LG Display, and is not 'generic white-labelled slop' by any means. It is an extremely good panel in its own right, probably the bleeding edge of LCD technology today achieving top-notch responsiveness, contrast, and colour depth and accuracy.
That MSI monitor will probably retail for ~£800 as will the Asus and LG equivalents, which is not a trivial amount for a monitor. Apple just marked it up 3×, as they are prone to do for anything.
Back in the day (~15 years ago), when 4K monitors were unheard of and even Apple's high-end displays were still 1440p, you could get a bottom-dollar monitor using one of their panels (e.g. Yamakasi Catleap Q270) for about a third of the price. However, it came with no amenities, a single connector (dual-link DVI only), a questionably legal power cable, and no built-in scaling. The vendors, presumably to prevent refunds, even asked for your graphics card model before selling it to you, because it wouldn't work with low-end cards. Oh, and there were very few in the U.S., so you were typically getting them shipped straight from abroad, customs duties and all.
We've definitely come a long way.
For me though, I am frequently working in different rooms with arbitrary lighting situations. Net effect of the gloss is negative for me unquestionably.
I used to daily drive an apple thunderbolt display (the last non-retina one, 2560x1440). That thing was atrocious. I could often see the reflections of my glasses, or a white glare if I was wearing a white shirt. At nigh, in a dark office (lights off, just whatever came in from the street).
I'm typing this on a matte "ips black" dell ultrasharp something-or-other at 10% brightness, wearing glasses, a white t-shirt, with an overhead light, and see no reflection or glare on my screen. There's no way in hell I'd go back to a shiny screen.
I understand "anti-glare" technology has improved. The most recent apple screen I've tested is an m1 mbp. It seems somewhat better than my 2013 mbp, but still a worse experience than my 2015 (or thereabouts) 24"@4k dell, which is pretty old technology. My 2025 lenovo has a screen that's much more confortable to use inside.
Paradoxically, I'd say the one environment where I prefer my macs to my matte screens is in bright sunlight. Sure, there are more reflections than you can shake a stick at, but there's always an angle where you can see the part of the screen you want. You have to move around, which is obviously annoying, but you can see. The matte screens just turn to mush. Luckily for me, I hate being out in the sun, so I never encounter this situation in practice.
I think the "frost" you're talking about depends a lot on the screen implementation. I tested once an HP model, 27"@4k, and it did have such an effect. Anecdotally, it didn't handle reflections all that well, either. So maybe it's just a question of lower quality product?
OLED smartphones have much higher ppi to deal with this.
https://www.tomshardware.com/monitors/lg-display-reveals-wor...
Not anymore, as long as you make sure that any RGB antialiasing is turned off. Linux defaluts to disabling this and doing only grayscale antialiasing, so it looks great on an OLED out of the box. Windows can be configured to do this.
I presume you also mean "when used for text heavy work" here, yes? Or do you mean that these displays tire out your eyes even when used "for what they're for", i.e. gaming? (Because that's a very interesting assertion if so, and I'd like to go into depth about it.)
I have an ASUS ProArt Display 27” 5K. And I somewhat regret it.
I love the pixel density. But I don’t love the matte finish. Which is apparently a controversial take. But I really don’t. I like the crisp pop of typography you get with a glossy display. And, for UI design, the matte finish just doesn’t “feel” like the average end-user experience. I am constantly pushing Figma between my laptop display and my monitor to better simulate what a design will look like on an average glossy LCD or OLED display.
I got a deal on a used one last year and I love it. It's the only monitor I've used plugged into a MacBook that didn't look notably off (worse) compared to the MacBook's display sitting next to it. Only thing a bit jarring is it's 60Hz but I can live with it.
Asus has picked up the 5k 27" monitor from LG, it's the $730 PA27JCV
I constantly see people saying Apple displays are a terrible value. Last Apple display I had was the Thunderbolt 27 but from now on I'm sticking with Apple.
I've had nothing but issues with non-Apple monitors as well. Customer service ime is non-existent if you need a repair. For something I rely on to get work done, I'm starting to think the premium is worth it.
And somehow they completely forgot how to seamlessly work with displays in general. Connect multiple displays via Thunderbolt? Nope. Keep layouts when switching displays? No. Running any display at more than 60Hz? No. Remember monitor positions? No.
There are even 240Hz displays.
IIRC Apple couldn't get above 60Hz even on third-party displays they explicitly advertised.
Make sure your dock, dongle, and/or cables aren’t bottlenecks.
I've switched docks, dongles, cables, to no avail.
Support also varies a lot between M chips, and Thunderbolt often doesn't support high refresh rates https://support.apple.com/en-us/101571
I can't remember now the actual setup I had, sadly
Both of my LG ultrawides work at 144Hz?
At the time, people were "marveling" at the magic of Apple, and wondering how they did the math to make that display work within bandwidth constraints.
The simple answer was "by completely fucking with DP 1.4 DSC".
I had at the time a 2019 (cheesegrater) Mac Pro. I had two Asus 27" 4K HDR 144Hz monitors, that the Mac had no problems driving under Catalina.
Install Big Sur. Nope. With the monitors advertising DP 1.4, my options were SDR@95Hz, HDR@60Hz. I wasn't the only one, hundreds of people complaining, different monitors, cards, cables.
I could downgrade to Catalina: HDR@144Hz sprung back to life.
Hell, I could on the monitors tell them to advertise DP 1.2 support, which actually improved performance, and I think I got SDR@120Hz, HDR@95Hz (IIRC).
So you don't deserve downvotes on this. Apple absolutely ignored standards and broke functionality for third party screens just to get the Pro Display XDR (which, ironically, I own, although now it's being driven by an M2 Studio, versus the space heater that was the Xeon cheesegrater).
Here’s some monitors you can buy at that price point:
- 6k 32” monitor (similar PPI) (Acer PE320QX)
- most high-end 4k displays (even OLEDs) with 144hz+ refresh rate
32” 4k isn’t great PPI, but it’s still fine PPI, at a reasonable distance. Double the refresh rate is a much more noticeable improvement to me than 40% better pixel density, at a distance where retina matters a bit less than laptops & handhelds. And you can get that for less than half the cost
Plus, you can get it with multiple outputs & KVM to switch between MacBook & PC. And still run it off a single USB C cable.
120 Hz can also noticeably improve frame pacing for 24p video*.
120 Hz vs 144 Hz? Barely noticeable when flipping between the two. Not sure if I'd pass an ABX test with 100% accuracy.
Can't speak for 240 Hz or higher, as I haven't used them.
* Though 119.88 Hz is probably a better default for this since most non-DCI "24p" video is still 23.976 FPS; this is changing, but until browsers and streaming apps support VRR for video, I'm not convinced this is a good thing due to the mountain of legacy 23.976 FPS content.
It's night and day when you're going back and forth between looking at them and wiggle your mouse around in circle. But after a few seconds of being focused on your work, you're not thinking about it anymore.
Being able to watch 24fps video without non-integer frame weirdness is the only real advantage outside of twitch-reaction gaming.
Usually these exists only to bump the price of the pro model.
I personally wouldn’t buy a new LCD based display anymore at this price. There are flaws inherent to the technology that affect all of my recent Apple displays (Studio Display, M1 Pro iPad, M1 Pro MPB, M4 Pro MPB). After using OLED TVs and OLED iPhones for years, it’s very difficult to look past LCD’s issues (edge yellowing+dimming specifically affects all my Apple screens more than I am happy with).
There are no reviews/studies on long-term aging of Apple’s LCD displays, so all of this should be taken with a grain of salt, maybe my devices are just unlucky.
I don’t know if the Pro XDR line is better or how that would carry over to the Studio XDR. I haven’t seen many complains about the Pro XDR, but the Studio Display form factor has a different cooling design which would affect longevity.
I will say I can never go back from retina resolution text, and that alone has made the experience of Studio Display good. If we could get OLED it would be perfection. I think I would have to see the XDR in practice to be convinced, but 120hz requiring a whole new computer does make it a non-starter for me.
> A US Department of Energy paper shows that the expected lifespans of OLED lighting products goes down with increasing brightness, with an expected lifespan of 40,000 hours at 25% brightness, or 10,000 hours at 100% brightness
I bought my OLED TV when fearmongering was the highest, and it still works perfectly with zero burn-ins. So it is definitely possible. I bought the tv 8 years ago.
> Mac models with M1, M1 Pro, M1 Max, M1 Ultra, M2, and M3 support Studio Display XDR at up to 60Hz. All other Studio Display XDR features are supported.
Also the base M4 doesn’t habe Thunderbolt 5 and it support 120 hz.
Can you point me to said list? All I could find was:
> Mac models with M1, M1 Pro, M1 Max, M1 Ultra, M2, and M3 support Studio Display XDR at up to 60Hz. All other Studio Display XDR features are supported.
And The Verge reports:
> There’s also support for adaptive sync that can adjust between 47Hz and 120Hz (if it’s connected to an M4 Mac or later, or the M5 iPad Pro)
I got an M3 Max and was strongly considering upgrading my old monitor, but if I can't do 120hz, I'll just wait until I upgrade my laptop as well.
There’s no list per-se. The MacBook Pro (2021 and later) is listed as supported. The M3 Pro and M3 Max are not listed as only supporting 60Hz while the M3 and M1 Pro are.
Dell U4025QW: 5120 x 2160 = 11,059,200 vs Apple Studio Display XDR: 5120 x 2880 = 14,745,600
So your display has 25% less pixels.
I had no idea what it was for the longest time. As it turns out, macOS frequently enables it even when it’s unnecessary, and without any way to override.
(Notice how they listed the M1 chips individually.)
Also works great with other sources like an Xbox
I used a Pro Display XDR as my daily driver at work and the difference is minimal
Nano texture in mixed lighting scenarios is worth every penny even on a lower resolution and lower refresh rate panel.
Also the non-XDR is only a small upgrade otherwise, no 120Hz, no HDR, only Thunderbolt 5 and a new camera. Finally a downstream Thunderbolt port though.
This is all after 4 years?
[1] https://store.hermanmiller.com/home-desk-accessories/jarvis-...
- Design Patterns by the Gang of Four
- Modern C++ Design by Andrei Alexandrescu
- Code Complete from the Microsoft Press
That's enough old paper to raise the display height to a comfortable level.
The camera is still 12MP but offers Desk View. Maybe this is a feature unlocked by the improved onboard A-series chip (A19?).
I wouldn't sniff too hard about Thunderbolt 5. Thunderbolt 5 doubles throughput to 80 Gbps from 40.
Would have loved refresh above 60Hz but then who's gonna get the XDR?
just buy a nice one on amazon for $100, it's still VESA mounts
But even so, these 2 new monitors still don’t support multiple inputs.
It looks like a nice display, but that’s a deal killer for me.
I guess we're going to see how the support for DP Alt-Mode will be, as I'm not sure how much bandwidth that can provide, so 120Hz might be out of the question. But for now that has been a simple way to get around the lack of multiple display inputs, you just needed a separate KVM switch for it.
- 5k resolution at HIDPI (27inch)
- 120hz refresh rate
- TB5 and single cable connectivity.
There are a couple of other HIDPI displays at 5k with 120hz refresh rate but they don't do TB5.
What are people's current favorites for a 5K 27" screen that doesn't cost as much as a whole damned computer?
It had some coil whine initially but that has gone. There's a load of nonsense software in it but I just have it disconnected from the internet and only use it as a monitor. The web cam is not useful but I don't use that either.
This was a couple of years ago - I think that there are a lot more options available now?
Text is very crisp at this DPI. The built in thunderbolt dock works reliably.
It is annoying how the cables stick down on the bottom of the monitors. A few right angle adapters helps with that.
Edit: Also consider the price of speakers, camera, hub, power, and the "it just works" factor.
Most modern usb-c / tb seem to come in an integrated "dock" which provides power. But many provide a laughably low number.
Also, for some reason, many come with external power bricks for some reason, which are a special kind of PITA with their short, permanently attached cords.
Also JapanNext offers a 6k screen for <$1000, but it hasn't started shipping yet to my knowledge
You haven't had problems, and would buy it again?
EDIT: It appears the Pro Display has been discontinued.
”Studio Display XDR replaces Pro Display XDR and starts at $3,299 (U.S.) and $3,199 (U.S.) for education.”
Which means they don't have a 32" display option if true.
Maybe it will also be updated, but on a different day this week?
I recall the XDR being announced alongside the last Mac Pro redesign. No new Mac Pro yet, so maybe they’ll announce the new large display whenever that is announced?
Really glad Apple is building it.
How does a 5k display replace a 6k display? Are they giving up on 6k? Disappointing.
I know I'm privileged but my biggest issue with them isn't the HDR or 120Hz. It's that the seam between them causes me to not be able to use that "middle" real estate.
So I was side-eyeing a 6k display cuz it would have most of the benefits of a dual 4k but more real estate and more flexibility in windowing.
The curved displays also look quite promising (like the Neo G2), but not feeling like spending money when I have two perfectly good monitors that already work.
As the years have gone, the only upgrade I wished to have was 120 refresh for some very limited design work - but 120 really is still not widely adopted in most places anywhere, so it’s really a non-issue for me.
The new XDR is smaller, has a less ergo stand, and also loses the beautiful lattice etchings on the rear which I often admire.
The XDR was overdue for a refresh, it’s nice the price dropped some, but I won’t be upgrading for now.
Sure, most of the time the cable seems secure enough to maintain connection when I accidentally nudge the laptop. But every once in a while, when I slightly shift the laptop here or there, flicker and everything goes batshit. The monitor loses connection, so maybe (depending on config) the laptop screen changes resolution and then eventually reconnects and flickers and changes back. Or the network drops out (if I'm connected to Ethernet over Thunderbolt). Or a program freaks out because the drive it was using disappeared. Or the laptop really freaks out and kernel panics.
Like I said, it doesn't happen a ton, but it's happened a handful of times over the years, just enough that now I always use an external mouse and keyboard with a docked laptop to avoid such nonsense.
It's now vastly cheaper to buy a Mac and a 27" Studio Display XDR than it is to buy a single 21" DICOM display for your clinic. Heck, it's not much more expensive to buy two SD XDRs than to buy one standard DICOM display.
I have the last-gen Studio Display, pretty great during the day (the nano-texture is astonishing), but just looks like trash at night when the backlight overwhelms the blacks.
My guess was that the “Studio Display 2” would introduce Mini-LED, and then a “Pro Display 2” would have the high-refresh and maybe 32". Wake me up in five years, I guess.
Entirely unsurprised that someone would refuse to give up their workflow, though! I've rarely found a user with specific needs who wants to change literally anything else about their system, since what they have works for them.
So targeting checkbox-compliance for places like hospital systems is probably an easy win to generating / keeping some long term contracts.
Can you recommend any displays with PPI and brightness equivalent to the studio display, with 120Hz+ refresh rates? I was waiting for this announcement to buy a studio display because I thought they might bring 120Hz to the base model, but $3300 is a lot to spend on a single display. I have an original studio display and a high refresh rate 4K OLED monitor, and they are both compromises unfortunately.
I haven't found a glossy competitor, or even one with the same HDR spec, but this is the closest I could find so far.
https://www.monitors.com/products/jvc-cl-s500-rn?variant=427...
$3300 for a 27" display is ridiculous in comparison.
(Acknowledging that the link I provided is for a pair of monitors, but also those monitors are half price because they're refurbished)
Especially nice in a small apartment where I use the same display for video, gaming, and desktop.
No USB-C, but HDMI works better for long cable runs anyway, so I can keep my (non-laptop) computers in the other room and just "dock" my wireless input devices to a USB-C charger as needed.
Thunderbolt would be even worse, as even if I could somehow get Thunderbolt out of an Nvidia GPU, I'm not aware of any devices that would allow switching between multiple Thunderbolt inputs, and 4 sufficiently long optical Thunderbolt cables would probably cost more than the display itself.
As for crisp text, I'll replace it with a 120 Hz 8K display in a few years if the price is right. In the mean time, I value screen real estate far higher (and dislike multi-monitor setups).
People who want a Studio Display want retina crispness. If you enjoy a 42" 4k, you're more concerned with real estate than image fidelity.
I'm happy with a 65" 4K TV in my living room, but a 4K 27" monitor is borderline too low-res for computer work. Same pixel count, but different use cases.
The sort of “visual impact” a screen can have is mostly a combination of what percentage of your FOV it consumes.
People think they’ve got a bunch of screen real estate when they buy a big TV to use as a monitor… and then they use it a twice or more the distance of a regular monitor.
That is not extensive connectivity. That’s the bare minimum one might credibly expect.
If I were to consider buying a display like this, I would want at least two and preferably more inputs and at least a DisplayPort input. Not everything in the world is USB-C, especially when discrete GPUs are involved.
I was heartbroken all of the flat panel normal aspect monitors in that family since have had other severe tradeoffs and it's only the curved ultrawides that were given the better specs.
Did I miss something
The Studio Display XDR seems nice, but I wish they would have kept a 32" option.
Off topic, but Apple seems to be dropping hardware costs / capability - relying more in subscription, app store, and cloud now? On an impulse buy, I bought the entry level MacBook Air at Best Buy about two months ago because it was $200 off list price. Amazingly capable laptop for $800.
I think it's kind of weird that they didn't just do two size options with similar specs.
My father-in-law is a monitor engineer. He is insanely gifted. We were in a Taiwanese factory together years ago and I asked him what it would cost to build the Pro Display XDR today. I will never forget his answer…
“We can’t, we don’t know how to do it.”
“A lot less than you paid for it.”
Loved the extra screen real estate of the 30" ACD and it's a beautifully designed product that I enjoyed having on my desk.
In its last year or two the backlight wear started to result in colors to become uneven. Blues were less vibrant and reds had tint issues.
Was also difficult to justify the power draw, it had a 150w power supply.
But it’s the same pixel density.
I said about two years back I’d wait to upgrade my 1080p monitor until Apple shipped a high refresh rate one. I knew the monkey’s paw would curl but at nearly $5000 CAD that’s a hard no.
Probably not worth the hassle, but I wish there was literally any other display manufacturer out there with premium build quality.
Using OLED directly in names works because OLED panels inherently have common features like blacks, contrast, and lack of blooming over other panel types. They can have other aspects added in (e.g. tandem OLED or the like) but by saying it's OLED you include these base things without needing a unique term.
Saying other panels are LCD tells you next to nothing as there are so many types which can be paired in so many ways which can all have completely different characteristics. It's not a conspiracy to hide the truth that people must only want OLED displays, it's an attempt to say something rather than nothing in the name of the monitor so you know what it actually is beyond "not an OLED".
If it were about trying to hide something the subhead wouldn't say mini-LED.