Cistercian Numbers

(omniglot.com)

87 points | by debo_ 2 days ago

11 comments

  • tangus 1 day ago
    My minuscule pet peeve is that having only one source where the number 5 is depicted with a triangle (all others show it as a separated segment, like the number 6 but shorter), that's how every article or library draws it. It's all because the guy who wrote a book about them saw that source first so he based his figures on it.

    Here's a small summary about the numbers with many examples: https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2020/20290-cistercian-digits.pdf

    • bobbiechen 1 day ago
      Being first matters :')

      I wrote a font for these, which does use the triangle-5 and the vertical layout: https://bobbiec.github.io/cistercian-font.html (recent discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46939312)

      And my associated writeup: https://digitalseams.com/blog/making-a-font-with-9999-ligatu... .

      As mentioned in the blog, I think the horizontal layout makes more sense too (in terms of writing order). But just like the triangle-5, the vertical layout is more commonly seen, so that's what I stuck with.

    • autoexec 1 day ago
      It might not be accurate but it does seem like it'd be easy to mistake a 5 and 6 without the triangle. Especially when the characters are being hurriedly written by hand. If I were going to use this system, I'd be sticking with the triangle.
    • jhncls 1 day ago
      In a Numberphile video [0], Alex Bellos also uses a triangle for 5.

      [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p55Qgt7Ciw

    • debo_ 1 day ago
      It would never have occurred to me that anyone would want to get these into a Unicode standard. This document you linked is excellent, thank you.
    • culi 1 day ago
      I wish the 6 was a triangle in the other direction instead
  • zzo38computer 18 hours ago
    Some people have said, use a unadorned staff for zero, and six being a triangle in the other direction instead; that is what I thought too, and some other people also do.

    I also wrote a program in PostScript to draw Cistercian numbers (which uses the nonstandard sign for 6):

      % Specify a four-digit number as the command-line argument.
      /A ARGUMENTS 0 get def
      
      /Digit {
        get 48 sub {
          {} %0
          {24 0 rlineto} %1
          {0 -24 rmoveto 24 0 rlineto} %2
          {24 -24 rlineto} %3
          {0 -24 rmoveto 24 24 rlineto} %4
          {24 0 rlineto -24 -24 rlineto} %5
          {24 -24 rlineto -24 0 rlineto} %6 (nonstandard)
          {24 0 rlineto 0 -24 rlineto} %7
          {0 -24 rmoveto 24 0 rlineto 0 24 rlineto} %8
          {24 0 rlineto 0 -24 rlineto -24 0 rlineto} %9
        } exch get exec stroke
      } bind def
      
      4 setlinewidth
      6 6 moveto
      gsave
        36 0 rmoveto
        0 72 rlineto
        gsave
          -1 1 scale
          A 2 Digit
        grestore
        A 3 Digit
      grestore
      36 72 rmoveto
      1 -1 scale
      0 72 rlineto
      gsave
        -1 1 scale
        A 0 Digit
      grestore
      A 1 Digit
      
      showpage quit
  • somat 1 day ago
    I am a little sad that bare zero is not represented. This is my first exposure to Cistercian numbers but it looks like a unadorned staff would fit for the bare zero.

    The whole thing is a lot of fun, feels like a Myst puzzle. Or more accuratly, I don't think Myst had a number puzzle but Riven did and I recently picked up Obduction and it had one, So probably fairer to say a Cyan type puzzle as they appear to love creating wierd numeric representations.

  • hackernj 1 day ago
    Two OEIS sequences for Cistercian numeral system: https://oeis.org/A341737 and https://oeis.org/A381327
  • perilunar 1 day ago
    Two odd things strike me:

    1. 5 is the symbols for 4 and 1 combined, 6 is new, then 7=6+1, 8=6+2, and 9=6+3. It seems to me it would be more obvious to have 1 to 5 be unique symbols, then 6=5+1, 7=5+2, 8=5+3, and 9=5+4. Like how we do with tally marks.

    2. The system is really just 4 digits combined in a square. I don't see the advantage over Arabic numerals.

    • szemy2 18 hours ago
      They had limited space.
  • iguana_shine 1 day ago
    It's pretty cool but I'm surprised there wasn't confusion among the 2s (2 & 200, 20 & 2000) all the other symbols had enough to make it clear which side they're on, but the closer the 2-notch gets to the centre, the more ambiguous it gets. Could even be confused with a 1 if you're not careful
  • onirom 1 day ago
    did a small raw binary-like implementation of an extended (base-16) version : https://www.onirom.fr/wiki/snippets/#JavaScript_:_Extended_C...
  • dcanelhas 1 day ago
    Shouldn't 523 in that list of "other numbers" actually be 522?
  • beratbozkurt0 1 day ago
    Actually, it would automatically translate when we scan it with the camera, like Google Translate.
  • klondike_klive 1 day ago
    Wow, it's a while since I've seen one of those lists of hundreds of vampires that you have to deselect!