Maybe that was explained in Rego's September talk [1] but went over my head, but how does Igalia steer Servo? I can understand that when the project was under Mozilla, there were people primarily from, or tied to Mozilla keeping it afloat. Since Igalia is a _consulting_ agency, I don't suppose they work on code themselves, so what do they do to, well, attract new people and keep existing contributors in the loop?
Igalia is a quite specific "consulting" agency that employs developers and get contracts from client to implement specific features or fix specific bugs, usually around FOSS. They have people who knows how to contribute to Firefox, Chrome, WebKit, Linux, Mesa... It's the go to company if you want to get something done in these projects when not having the resources for that in house.
For example they work for Valve to make the Radeon drivers better and got a grant to get basic MathML support done in the three major web browsers.
Igalia are implementation consultants not management consultants. They are who you get in when you need the expert in some field to fix your problem, usually by writing the code themselves. For example if you're writing driver code and you have problems you call them. Or if your Valve and you are having trouble with the linux graphics stack you might call them[1] etc....
I wonder, seeing the immense growth in 2023/2024, how that correlates with the ladybird project, which officially started in 2024.
Could Manifest v3 be the reason we have so much fresh air blowing in the browser ecosystem or does it just stem from a general unhappiness of said ecosystem?
I think that Ladybird has driven a lot of the effort, otherwise we'd just see browsers continuing to use Chromium with backports to allow v2 being worked on.
Ladybird was already progressing rapidly within SerenityOS well before it was officially launched, and I think that's given people a new inspiration for how plausible it is to create a browser from scratch. I'm really pleased we're seeing Servo having a resurgence too.
It’s indeed rapidly progressing feature-wise, but I have yet to see an explanation for how they intend to manage security once market adoption happens.
Ladybird is written in C++, which is memory-unsafe by default (unlike Rust, which is memory-safe by default). Firefox and Chrome also use C++, and each of them has 3-4 critical vulnerabilities related to memory safety per year, despite the massive resources Mozilla and Google have invested in security. I don’t understand how the Ladybird team could possibly hope to secure a C++ browser engine, given that even engineering giants have consistently failed to do so.
> Firefox and Chrome also use C++, and each of them has 3-4 critical vulnerabilities related to memory safety per year, despite the massive resources Mozilla and Google have invested in security.
And part of Firefox/Chromes security effort has been to use memory safe languages in critical sections like file format decoders. They're far too deeply invested in C++ to move away entirely in our lifetimes, but they are taking advantage of other languages where it's feasible, so to write a new browser in pure C++ is a regression from what the big players are already doing.
I just checked out Servo, and like all browsers it has a VERY large footprint of dependencies (notably GStreamer/GOject, libpng/jpeg, PCRE). Considering browsers have quite the decent process isolation (the whole browser process vs heavily sandboxed renderer processes), I wonder how tangible the Rust advantage turns out to be.
I know that that’s the plan, but I believe it when I see it. Mozilla invented entire language features for Rust based on Servo’s needs. It’s doubtful whether a language like Swift, which is used mostly for high-level UI code, has what it takes to serve as the foundation of a browser engine.
The increased activity came from Igalia who started working on Servo in 2023 with support from the Linux Foundation. Prior to that the project was effectively dead in the water with no sponsored development.
But the question still remains, why did Igalia pick up a dead project?
I doubt you'd invest that kind of money/time into a project without a good reason. I am not saying that ladybird or manifest v3 are the reason, I just notice a lot of new energy in the not-just-chrome category and wonder what the other reasons might be.
Andreas Kling is pretty open about his reasons to have started the ladybird project and I just know Servo from his monthly videos and a few other sidenotes, so I was surprised that it gained so much traction after being basically dead.
> But the question still remains, why did Igalia pick up a dead project?
Igalia is generally pro open-source, and Servo certainly aligns with their ethos, but a lot of the money came from Futurewei / Huawei who are interested in Servo because it's not US based, and therefore they are actually able to contribute to it (they are effectively banned from contributing to Chrome/Firefox/Safari due to US sanctions). There is now also funding from the Sovereign Tech Fund who are also interested in a "European browser" (and NLnet, but they fund all sorts of things)
How usable is Servo nowadays? I remember trying it like 3 years ago (exploring it for integration for a dashboard where Chromium was too heavy), and most websites had major rendering or usability problems to the point that I abandoned the idea.
Probably the best way to get a feel short of actually trying it is to read the monthly reports on their blog [1], it still seems to be not ready to be a daily driver but I still follow blogs and videos about Servo and Ladybird because I’m hopeful we will have some more browser engine diversity someday!
Night and day better than 3 years ago. Website like github work properly now. But still a ways to go to catch up with top-tier browsers in both compatibility and performance.
(if testing make sure you enable the "experimental features" using the button in the top-right
- the project is far too conservative about this and lots of stuff doesn't work without them)
Are we at the point yet where someone can use something other than a major headless browser (firefox, chrome) for converting html to PDFs without huge css gotchas?
Is there any comparison/ are we x yet reviewing alternative browser engines being developed? It seems like there's quite a few in active development at this point.
Incredible! That contributor stat going to 146 people is super validating for the rust ecosystem. considering servo was the original "rewrite it in rust" project that basically birthed the language. Since memory safety is the bottleneck for every other legacy engine right now, is there any reason for embedded devices to keep using stripped-down webkit instead of switching to servo at this point?
[1]: https://blogs.igalia.com/mrego/servo-a-new-web-engine-writte...
For example they work for Valve to make the Radeon drivers better and got a grant to get basic MathML support done in the three major web browsers.
[1]: https://www.igalia.com/2025/11/helpingvalve.html
Could Manifest v3 be the reason we have so much fresh air blowing in the browser ecosystem or does it just stem from a general unhappiness of said ecosystem?
Ladybird was already progressing rapidly within SerenityOS well before it was officially launched, and I think that's given people a new inspiration for how plausible it is to create a browser from scratch. I'm really pleased we're seeing Servo having a resurgence too.
Ladybird is written in C++, which is memory-unsafe by default (unlike Rust, which is memory-safe by default). Firefox and Chrome also use C++, and each of them has 3-4 critical vulnerabilities related to memory safety per year, despite the massive resources Mozilla and Google have invested in security. I don’t understand how the Ladybird team could possibly hope to secure a C++ browser engine, given that even engineering giants have consistently failed to do so.
And part of Firefox/Chromes security effort has been to use memory safe languages in critical sections like file format decoders. They're far too deeply invested in C++ to move away entirely in our lifetimes, but they are taking advantage of other languages where it's feasible, so to write a new browser in pure C++ is a regression from what the big players are already doing.
And most of them are in the browser code itself, not in dependencies. By far the biggest offender tends to be the JavaScript engine.
I've used Swift a bunch for hobby projects, and the two things that suck about it are:
1. XCode
2. Compile times
I would assume if you're coming from C++ or Rust the compile time issues aren't really something you notice anyway :P
I doubt you'd invest that kind of money/time into a project without a good reason. I am not saying that ladybird or manifest v3 are the reason, I just notice a lot of new energy in the not-just-chrome category and wonder what the other reasons might be.
Andreas Kling is pretty open about his reasons to have started the ladybird project and I just know Servo from his monthly videos and a few other sidenotes, so I was surprised that it gained so much traction after being basically dead.
Igalia is generally pro open-source, and Servo certainly aligns with their ethos, but a lot of the money came from Futurewei / Huawei who are interested in Servo because it's not US based, and therefore they are actually able to contribute to it (they are effectively banned from contributing to Chrome/Firefox/Safari due to US sanctions). There is now also funding from the Sovereign Tech Fund who are also interested in a "European browser" (and NLnet, but they fund all sorts of things)
> I doubt you'd invest that kind of money/time into a project without a good reason.
Igalia is a very peculiar company. I would not rule out "it's a good thing for the commons and we bet we'll get some upside eventually" as the reason.
1. https://servo.org/blog/
(if testing make sure you enable the "experimental features" using the button in the top-right - the project is far too conservative about this and lots of stuff doesn't work without them)
Are we at the point yet where someone can use something other than a major headless browser (firefox, chrome) for converting html to PDFs without huge css gotchas?
Is there any comparison/ are we x yet reviewing alternative browser engines being developed? It seems like there's quite a few in active development at this point.
I'd say Servo isn't quite there yet, but give it another year on the current trajectory and it might well be a viable option for a lot of use cases.
For anyone else confused (as the linked page doesn't describe it at all:
> Servo aims to empower developers with a lightweight, high-performance alternative for embedding web technologies in applications.
It appears to be a browser engine embeddable in other applications, I assume for delivering content designed to run in a browser for some reason.