The disturbing part isn’t that bad encounters happen — it’s that these techniques are officially banned, yet keep showing up across unrelated cases. When policy and on-the-ground behavior diverge this consistently, it stops looking like individual misconduct and starts looking like a systems problem.
Laws don't matter in the US any more. Epstein files aren't being released even though there is law that requires. TikTok is still operating in the US even though there is law that bans it. Laws are only recommendations now.
From the article: "Arnoldo had filmed much of the incident, but agents had taken his phone. He used Find My to locate the phone — at a vending machine for used electronics miles away, close to an ICE detention center. The footage, which ProPublica has reviewed, backed the family’s account of the chase."
This article is 95% about chokeholds, and is titled as such, but OP chose to pick out one sentence at the end to editorialize the post title with. None of the content of the article is rosy and it should be shared far and wide, but I was under the impressions post titles should match the headlines or at least the general topic of the linked item?
Daniel (dang): I deeply resent if I now add to your daily troubles. If nothing else, please do believe that. I personally have not felt good around here for a good long time, but I have stayed, mostly because of you, your work and your influence around this site.
For what little that may be worth from a nameless stranger, you belong in my personal pantheon alongside luminaries of "the original net" - the Metafilters, Slashdots or even Fark.
I am German. The majority of my scholastic history education has - rightly - focussed on fascism and authorianism.
If you are living in the US right now: please, I am begging you, consider this: your democratic institutions have been thoroughly co-opted and have largely failed.
You know the whole "tree of liberty, blood of patriots" thing? It might already be that time; violence may already be required.
As we speak, members of your oldest military alliance are seriously discussing deploying troops in a god-forsaken part of the world, in defense of YOU.
There is no question at all how history will judge this - we know that, and we have seen that. The only question left unanswered is what you will be able to tell your children where you stood.
The volume of videos are endless. ICE agents walking up to protesters and shoving them to the ground, drive by pepper spraying, it goes on. These aren’t one off situations, this is every day in Minneapolis these days.
(1) Can be true. However with the "Absolute immunity" rhetoric from VP, this seems unlikely in the current environment.
(2) If one officer is telling you to move on and the other officer is telling you to get out of the car and you need to listen to both, which one do you comply with?
(3) You can be a "Legal Observer" does not imply "Political vigilantism". The idea of a "Legal Observer" is laid out by National Lawyers Guild and to some extent, by ACLU.
to counter 2) ICE is not police. There is nothing differentiating them from armed thugs. No bages, no ID's, no faces etc. There is no reason to do ANYTHING these people ask.
to counter 3) I would say there's a clear chick and egg here. ICE started behaving in a way that is now being met with an equal and opposite reactionary force. If ICE can stop acting like some SS wannabe force, the vigilantism goes away as well. The rules and laws are for everyone, not just some.
2) ICE is most definitely federal law enforcement. You cannot interfere with their operations and if you do, you can and will be arrested. If you believe otherwise you have been horribly misinformed.
3) People started throwing molotov cocktails and bricks at ICE vehicles, and started doxxing them in LA. That escalated things and both sides have been escalating. Both parties are guilty of escalating.
If you want to engage in vigilantism, then more people are going to die. There's a difference between protesting and vigilantism. Interfering in the operations of ICE is vigilantism and will get you arrested.
Cool, how do I identify them? They don't have badges and refuse to give ID. They cover their faces and use excessive force. Should I just immediately give up my rights and do whatever is asked of me from someone in a vest and ski mask with a gun because they claim to be a government agent?
We've seen videos in the past 72 hours showing blatant illegal activity and constitutional violations. You're literally commenting on an article about an ICE agent stealing an underage victim's property. Is this the American Freedom you guys always talk about? "Comply and get in the van with the armed, masked men and maybe you'll make it out alive"?
Out of genuine interest were you preaching this kind of bow down and blindly follow authority mantra during the COVID pandemic years?
I find it of interest that same kinds of anti state and federal government militia types that were actively storming federal and state capitals and beating on LEOs at that time are now joining ICE in droves and preaching compliance to the boot.
ICE is federal law enforcement. You are not allowed to interfere in their operations when they are lawfully engaging in immigration enforcement activity. If you do, you will get arrested. This is just how the law works. They can't go after you for impeding traffic, but if you are interfering in their operations by impeding traffic, they can arrest you.
350,000 illegal immigrants have been arrested by ICE and deported. We have only heard about maybe 50 really bad cases, and if ICE officers have committed crimes they should be arrested and charged. There are plenty of incidents of ICE agents getting injured by the people they are trying to arrest or by vigilantes.
Part of the problem is that with habius corpus being ignored we don't know how many people who were successfully deported without incident should have been.
50 bad cases also doesn't really summarize it well. Chainsawing through a fence and going through an entire apartment complex and zip typing kids together after violently breaking in really isn't "one" incident. Every single interaction there is potentially bad. Just because people were later released because they weren't illegal or in a gang or whatever does not justify going into people's private space and detaining them in a scary way, especially without warrants. That stuff is going to frighten and traumatize those kids. Home will no longer feel safe. This incitement of fear is in itself a huge part of the point and part of why it's very very bad.
People aren't resisting arrest. When you see people bloodied, beaten, permanently blinded by point blank non lethal weapons, or just shot in the face, that's because ICE / cops / CBP are doing it for their own personal enjoyment, and making sure the minimal amount of setup is there so they can claim they did nothing wrong. Cops finding excuses to kick the shit out of people who bother them is as old as policing itself. There's tens of thousands of accounts per year of this sort of thing, extreme examples being like Derek Chauvin, or more old school look up Abner Louima, but tons of garden variety cruelty every day, everywhere, done in the name of "fuck that asshole we're gonna fuck him up". The ICE version, run by fascist maniacs, is selecting for only the cruelest and most ideologically driven employees, but ICE had this reputation even before the current administration. It's just they have 80 billion dollars now to make it happen.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Minneapolis/comments/1qbawlr/minnea...
These aren’t bad apples, ICE operates without regard to the law by design.
Incorrupt governments follow their own laws.
For what little that may be worth from a nameless stranger, you belong in my personal pantheon alongside luminaries of "the original net" - the Metafilters, Slashdots or even Fark.
I am German. The majority of my scholastic history education has - rightly - focussed on fascism and authorianism.
If you are living in the US right now: please, I am begging you, consider this: your democratic institutions have been thoroughly co-opted and have largely failed.
You know the whole "tree of liberty, blood of patriots" thing? It might already be that time; violence may already be required.
As we speak, members of your oldest military alliance are seriously discussing deploying troops in a god-forsaken part of the world, in defense of YOU.
There is no question at all how history will judge this - we know that, and we have seen that. The only question left unanswered is what you will be able to tell your children where you stood.
https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/federal-prosecutors-m...
In the meantime ICE seems to be trying to simply provoke a response time and again with no consequences.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ICE_Raids/comments/1q7u4kz/ice_agen...
https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/1q7y43s/cbp_poin...
The volume of videos are endless. ICE agents walking up to protesters and shoving them to the ground, drive by pepper spraying, it goes on. These aren’t one off situations, this is every day in Minneapolis these days.
(2) If one officer is telling you to move on and the other officer is telling you to get out of the car and you need to listen to both, which one do you comply with?
(3) You can be a "Legal Observer" does not imply "Political vigilantism". The idea of a "Legal Observer" is laid out by National Lawyers Guild and to some extent, by ACLU.
to counter 3) I would say there's a clear chick and egg here. ICE started behaving in a way that is now being met with an equal and opposite reactionary force. If ICE can stop acting like some SS wannabe force, the vigilantism goes away as well. The rules and laws are for everyone, not just some.
3) People started throwing molotov cocktails and bricks at ICE vehicles, and started doxxing them in LA. That escalated things and both sides have been escalating. Both parties are guilty of escalating.
If you want to engage in vigilantism, then more people are going to die. There's a difference between protesting and vigilantism. Interfering in the operations of ICE is vigilantism and will get you arrested.
Cool, how do I identify them? They don't have badges and refuse to give ID. They cover their faces and use excessive force. Should I just immediately give up my rights and do whatever is asked of me from someone in a vest and ski mask with a gun because they claim to be a government agent?
We've seen videos in the past 72 hours showing blatant illegal activity and constitutional violations. You're literally commenting on an article about an ICE agent stealing an underage victim's property. Is this the American Freedom you guys always talk about? "Comply and get in the van with the armed, masked men and maybe you'll make it out alive"?
I find it of interest that same kinds of anti state and federal government militia types that were actively storming federal and state capitals and beating on LEOs at that time are now joining ICE in droves and preaching compliance to the boot.
Just today ICE raided a target. Arrested US citizens at random including minors. Then pushed them from moving trucks onto the highway.
You need to understand what is happening. You think complying works? The social contract has been broken.
50 bad cases also doesn't really summarize it well. Chainsawing through a fence and going through an entire apartment complex and zip typing kids together after violently breaking in really isn't "one" incident. Every single interaction there is potentially bad. Just because people were later released because they weren't illegal or in a gang or whatever does not justify going into people's private space and detaining them in a scary way, especially without warrants. That stuff is going to frighten and traumatize those kids. Home will no longer feel safe. This incitement of fear is in itself a huge part of the point and part of why it's very very bad.
eg: ICE has no authority wrt traffic stops and the kind of actions taken recently.
Door to door ID dragnets are not part of the written laws, etc.
https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/border-patrol-wa...
Can you honestly read that and say that you don’t condemn Obama but do condemn Trump?
While I'm certainly not a "literal communist" by any stretch I do urge you to watch a very short clip that specifically highlights your response:
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD7Ol0gz11k
If it helps, I'm not a US citizen and view all US administrations through the lens of not entirely reliable partners.
Oh, which Congress members sponsored the laws on stealing people's stuff? I missed that one.
Sorry, they may be enforcing laws, but the method of enforcement itself appears unlawful.