Show HN: 30k IKEA items in flat text

(huggingface.co)

39 points | by tsazan 5 days ago

9 comments

  • reddalo 1 hour ago
    I don't understand why new proposed standards are still polluting the root namespace (also see llms.txt).

    These things should be put under /.well-known [1], not in the root.

    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well-known_URI

    • buildbuildbuild 1 hour ago
      User friendliness. I’ve seen several less-technical people able to quickly access, create, and understand “llms.txt”.

      It’s not ideal but representative of the tension between user experience and technical correctness.

    • dkdcio 1 hour ago
      I was not aware you shouldn’t do that — what’s the rationale/historical context?
      • embedding-shape 1 hour ago
        Like most standards: "Because it's a standard". Kind of like setting a .body for a GET request, you can kind of do that, but why not do it the way it's intended to instead? Use POST :)
        • gunalx 37 minutes ago
          I have seen post being used instead of get, because of having encrypted parameters by default.
          • embedding-shape 31 minutes ago
            Yeah, and also because of firewalls sometimes stripping body of GET requests (not responses mind you, we're talking requests) to a server, and also because it's really uncommon to put a body on a GET request ;)
  • vachina 1 hour ago
    There’s already a schema.org spec that defines a JSON-LD structured data that you can embed on every of your product page to provide a machine readable interface of your product.

    For example, Google’s indexers already use this to surface pricing data. https://developers.google.com/search/docs/appearance/structu...

    • tsazan 1 hour ago
      That`s is valid for search engines. But if JSON-LD was sufficient for agents, Google wouldn't have launched UCP (Universal Commerce Protocol) yesterday.
      • vachina 17 minutes ago
        Took a look, UCP looks like presenting an entire shopping lifecycle for agents.

        JSON-LD is just read-only metadata for machines.

        • tsazan 3 minutes ago
          True. But extracting that metadata requires parsing the full DOM. CommerceTXT is for efficient discovery. Scan inventory cheaply first, then commit to the transaction.
  • btrettel 1 hour ago
    Interesting. I had been thinking recently about grep-friendly structured text file formats given the constraints of regex. But I hadn't considered that you could design a structured text file format to be LLM-friendly given token constraints.
    • tsazan 1 hour ago
      You're right.If a format is easy to grep, it is almost always cheap to tokenize. We treat token density as a primary design constraint.
  • croisillon 54 minutes ago
    years ago i did a small tool that, when you entered a product number, would scan all IKEA-websites with currency Euro and return the prices for each of them ; not that i expected furniture tourism to become a thing but it was funny
    • tsazan 15 minutes ago
      Reminds me of a friend who built a comment sentiment analyzer years ago. At the time, it looked like great innovation...
  • JosephRedfern 1 hour ago
    I've heard that LLMs can perform worse with these more efficient representations compared to e.g. JSON, because they've seen far fewer examples of them during training. Do you know how true that is?
    • TechSquidTV 1 hour ago
      Absolutely, but usually when working with a bespoke format for optimization, it's paired with an LLM specifically trained on that format.
    • tsazan 1 hour ago
      You are right about cryptic formats. CommerceTXT is semantically structured. Models like GPT, Claude and Gemini understand it out-of-the-box via ICL.
  • sognetic 1 hour ago
    Interesting! So did you do any experiments on a relevant subset of the data to test whether LLM performance degrades by introducing a new, presumably unknown to the LLM, format?
    • tsazan 58 minutes ago
      The 24% token savings come from converting JSON syntax to CommerceTXT.
  • usefulposter 1 hour ago
    "OP here" is the funniest tell that shows up when using an LLM to write a post for HN or Reddit.

    It's funny because it makes zero sense in the body of an initial post!

    In comments replying to people downthread - maybe. But opening a top-level post with "Original Poster here" is just silly and shows a lack of respect for community etiquette.

    https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastYear&page=0&prefix=tru...

    • dkoy 1 hour ago
      Good catch, think you’re on to something
  • colinbartlett 2 hours ago
    Any practical use for this IKEA data specifically?

    Or just a handy open data set you could use to prove out the concept?

    • DennisP 1 hour ago
      I assumed it's because IKEA is famous for flat packing its furniture.
      • tsazan 1 hour ago
        Exactly! IKEA removes the air from the box to save space, CommerceTXT removes the HTML/JSON bloat to save tokens. You made my day!
        • embedding-shape 1 hour ago
          > IKEA removes the air from the box to save space

          Huh? I don't think that's true, there usually is some sort of structural elements inside of the package, meant to be thrown away (usually made with cardboard/paper), and all Ikea boxes definitively have lots of air inside of them, not sure what would make you say otherwise, unless it's some joke I'm missing?

          • jayknight 1 hour ago
            A box that contained a fully assembled kitchen table would contain a lot more air. I think that comment just meant IKEA designs items that can be packaged into a minimal volume.
            • embedding-shape 58 minutes ago
              Ah yes, on second reading it's actually pretty obvious that is what parent meant and I was reading it too literally. Thanks for the clarification, that's certainly correct :)
    • WildGreenLeave 1 hour ago
      I've had the idea to setup an AI that automatically (re)designs a room using IKEA stuff. It would definitely help me decorate my room in a better way.
      • tsazan 1 hour ago
        That`s great use case. If you ship it, let me know!