6 comments

  • ronbenton 1 hour ago
    A good saying I heard recently is that the first amendment doesn’t exist to protect the speech you like, it exists to protect the speech you hate.
    • nntwozz 35 minutes ago
      “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” — Voltaire
    • mystraline 34 minutes ago
      No. It serves as a defense for people to criticize government. Its why I can insult and talk terrible of president Turnip (spit) and not fear the gulag.

      People who 'advocate' for threats, assault, or death of people should never be permitted. Like, for example, Kiwi Farms. They've advocated for online bullying, threats, and ended up getting a bunch of people killed.

      • jfengel 30 minutes ago
        If you don't fear the gulag, you're not paying attention. He routinely attempts to put his political enemies in jail.
        • mystraline 26 minutes ago
          Oh I'm paying attention. But I also stay quiet publicly. Speaking out is a way to get the hammer.

          Theres different ways to protest. Being an obvious target isn't what I do.

          • Aloha 16 minutes ago
            > No. It serves as a defense for people to criticize government. It's why I can insult and talk terrible of president Turnip (spit) and not fear the gulag.

            > Theres different ways to protest. Being an obvious target isn't what I do.

            How do you reconcile those two statements?

    • jfengel 31 minutes ago
      Not necessarily. According to the Supreme Court, "implicit in the history of the First Amendment is the rejection of obscenity as utterly without redeeming social importance".

      That seems asinine to me, and it's just one in a long line of reasons to hold the court in utter contempt. But they're in charge and I'm not.

      • KPGv2 24 minutes ago
        > That seems asinine to me

        Until you realize that child pornography would be protected by the First Amendment without obscenity carved out.

        The Miller Test is what defines obscenity, and it seems pretty reasonable to me: is it about gross sex according to the average person (not the most Karen person), and does it lack serious literary, political, scientific, or artistic merit.

        Honestly, I'm not aware of a Supreme Court case that held something to be obscene that was IMO wrongly decided. Pornography is fine. Even lolicon (cartoon sex of children) has been protected under the First Amendment and not deemed obscene.

  • prokopton 1 hour ago
    We age gate other things that are genuinely useful but can be harmful when used incorrectly or with malice.

    Given how much trouble you can cause with an Internet connection, I’m surprised this hasn’t happened already.

    • themafia 1 hour ago
      > We age gate other harmful objects: firearms, alcohol, driving, et cetera.

      We can easily prove those have harms.

      > trouble you can cause with an Internet connection

      Why don't we age gate hands? Number one source of human problems right there. Perhaps we should outfit our children like Harrison Bergeron until they reach the age of majority?

    • bevr1337 1 hour ago
      Internet service is age gated by the provider and the prerequisites like a physical address and bank account
      • toast0 27 minutes ago
        If you've got cash, you can go to Walmart and setup a prepaid cell phone with internet access. No ID or address required.
    • Waterluvian 1 hour ago
      It would be like age gating a library.
      • paulryanrogers 29 minutes ago
        Kids cannot check out adult materials. Nor can they attend a library alone until middle school. (At least around here.)
        • Waterluvian 26 minutes ago
          I guess the already normalized lack of liberty shouldn’t surprise me anymore.
    • ctxc 1 hour ago
      Surely you must see the difference between what is a utility and...firearms and alcohol?
    • nine_k 1 hour ago
      Human bare hands and teeth can be lethal if used skillfully. I wonder why isn't operating them age-gated.

      Speaking can do a lot of harm, from emotional distress to swindling a victim out of millions through a scam.

      World's safest place is a solitary confinement cell. It comes with some downsides though.

      • droopyEyelids 1 hour ago
        > I wonder why isn't operating them age-gated.

        It is! Have you met a baby before... no teeth, severely diminished strength and muscle control

    • k12sosse 1 hour ago
      Age gate positions of power, that is, you can't hold them after you're 55
      • nine_k 1 hour ago
        It's discrimination, should be 65 like everywhere else.
        • paulryanrogers 28 minutes ago
          Isn't the median like 65 already? Seems like it's closer to the minimum.
  • ronbenton 1 hour ago
    This identity verification business for porn sites is a nightmare for privacy. Will just result in more personal info being hacked and blackmail given the subject matter.
    • nine_k 1 hour ago
      I wonder why identity verification is even mentioned, when age verification is all that's needed.
      • ronbenton 1 hour ago
        That’s a good call out, I should be more careful with my words. Practically, I haven’t seen age verification implemented online without some kind of identify credential furnished. But I didn’t mean to imply some kind of IAL2 compliant identity assurance or something
    • TZubiri 1 hour ago
      A novel approach would be to verify age and then discard identity records, which is standard in the brick and mortar equivalents like bars.
      • ethin 53 minutes ago
        This doesn't work, because something still has to be stored (unless you like the idea of being nagged everywhere you go online (including just clicking links) to "verify your age"). That upends the entire "well it's just like verifying your age at a bar" idea.
      • mixmastamyk 1 hour ago
        One place tried to scan my id recently. Hopefully others will speak up against it but I am not optimistic.
        • PeterHolzwarth 44 minutes ago
          This is why I don't by alcohol online for delivery: the delivery person is required by their company to scan my ID. Places I order from already know enough about me - they don't also need a copy of my identification.
    • cindyllm 1 hour ago
      [dead]
  • websiteapi 1 hour ago
    what's the difference between porn and any arbitrary category here? even with porn isn't it just arbitrary that porn has been defined as "adult?" presumably Texas could just legislate that all apps are "adult" content, and then this would apply, no?

    given the same judge per the article did this block which ultimately was overturned by the Supreme Court, I doubt this will go differently

    • websiteapi 0 minutes ago
      I think you might find it not so arbitrary that kids should watch 6 men “use” a young man or girl; or even 3 grannies using a young boy as a toy. Is it really arbitrary?
  • notepad0x90 54 minutes ago
    I don't necessary like this law or precedent, but there are several major issues I have with the opposition.

    One is that it is not individuals that have their speech restricted, I have a very big problem with companies continuing to be treated as if they're people, they're not. Individuals have rights by default, companies have only obligations, unless explicitly stated by the government as a right of incorporated entities, ideally at least.

    There is also the issue of "freedom of speech is not freedom of reach", as in you can shout fire, but being able to reach a mass audience is reach. At least as far as content creators are concerned.

    Lastly, I don't know of the union has a chance of lasting if we can't allow states to enact ridiculous laws we don't like. Resistance to state law by the federal government should be rare and only in defense or actual harm being caused to citizens. My point isn't that freedom of speech is a minor right, but that the requirement to prove harm (since everyone agrees, speech isn't a right if there is harm) should not be strong on the part of states.

    The mere subjective opinion that the moral character of texans would be corrupted (as if! lol) by the content should be enough. why? because democracy, that's why. it's what texans keep voting for, states should have some level of self determination, otherwise they're just federal provinces.

    I don't think anyone serious is arguing that porn for children is fine. The problem is everyone else having to pay for it by verifying age. You may have a strong opinion on this, as do I, but if the democratic government of texas chooses to levy burdens on adults to protect children (at least in their view and belief), why should outsiders intervene or have an opinion on it?

    I would argue, that the burden of proof here to require the intervention of the federal government and legitimate invoking of federal rights should only be done if the plaintiff can prove harm was done to them, in this case by being required to verify their age. Or the content creators not being able to reach enough consumers.

    I think a lot of the core issues we have in the US are caused by a now entrenched culture, where states are required to have similar laws. Let's say you're a mormon or something and want to raise your kids in a strict state, if states can't age verify, what choice do mormons have left? You may not care for mormons, but this stuff adds up. You'll have a large voter base (I argue - that's what MAGA is in a way) that is consistently left out of options, because the terrible, ignorant, backwards, etc.. views they have can't be represented by any state. It all becomes a federal matter, eventually the only way to solve it would be conflict.

    I think enforcement of the civil right act/voting rights act set this precedent. It was the right thing to do, because it had to do with people's participation in voting, education and government, the very things which need to be protected so that states can claim they're representing the views of their population when passing disagreeable laws.

    But if the sentiment is that porn creators and consumers' rights in this case trumps states' rights, then we no longer have a system of government where different states can pursue different democratic experiments. The voters of federal/general election swing states determine every aspect of amercians' lives, their views are tyrannically forced upon everyone else.

    • debo_ 34 minutes ago
      I don't think your argument addresses the substance of the judge's opposition, which is that the law as proposed will apply to all apps and all websites, not just ones that might do harm. That does seem like genuine overreach, and it is not even likely that it's what Texans were really asking for in the first place. It's just a bad law.
  • superkuh 1 hour ago
    These are exactly the harmful and dangerous consequences of the social memes going around with delusions that 'screens' are harmful and that somehow multi-media from screens, despite not having any mechanism to directly alter incentive salience in any way, is just like addictive incentive salience altering drugs like cocaine.

    When you use phrases like "internet addiction" "social media addiction" and the like these are the government uses of force you are supporting.

    The judge asking for concrete evidence of these harms and them being unable to provide them, or even a hint of them probably won't change people's perceptions. Just look in this very comment thread for those ignoring the fact the entire article is about lack of proof of harms.

    Because of this delusional grassroots support of the concept the authoritarian governments will just keep throwing this scientifically unsupported feces against the wall till it sticks. There's big money in the treatment camps (the anti-gay conversion camp people's new scam), etc, and big potential in the censorship and control of information.

    • TZubiri 1 hour ago
      I have always been chronically online, but now I'm online seeing stupid short form videos for hours on end, and everyone around me is doing the same.

      Half the population watching 4 hours of short form content online is a problem.