6 comments

  • aerostable_slug 1 hour ago
    In California, rape of an unconscious person is not considered a violent felony for the purposes of 'strikes' as well as early release from prison. A rapist may serve as little as 50% of their sentence due to this fact.

    It was only this year (2025) that rape of an unconscious person who was made unconscious by the assailant (a date rape drug provision like Germany's) became a violent felony. Germany is not alone in these types of reclassifications.

  • sebst 2 hours ago
    Could someone with a background in law explain the advantage of a reclassification over imposing the same penalties on this particular group of substances?

    Because outside of the legal definition, I would not call those “weapons” in everyday language. They are a thing on their own…

    • greggyb 2 hours ago
      One avenue, couched in specifics of US law, but I presume the ideas have analogs in Germany's legal system:

      A battery occurs when a harmful physical contact occurs. Contact with a weapon is pretty much by definition battery.

      The use of such a drug in the commission of rape or other violent crimes would then be a very easily proven case. If the substance is present in a victim's body, then battery has occured, basically by definition.

      Given that rape and other violent crimes that are committed with the use of such drugs may not leave other physical signs on the body of the victim, then this may be the only physical evidence.

      The examination for presence of such a drug in the bloodstream is also much less intrusive than for a typical rape kit exam.

      There's nothing binary or black and white in such investigations, so this is an additional avenue to provide evidence to support the prosecution of these violent criminals.

      • jojobas 1 hour ago
        > If the substance is present in a victim's body

        There is a possibility that the accused has nothing to do with it, you still have to prove it wasn't some third party or the victim who procured and took the drug.

        • im3w1l 1 hour ago
          > you still have to prove it wasn't some third party or the victim who procured and took the drug.

          Does it actually work that way in the real world?

          • jonahrd 58 minutes ago
            Yes, people can and do recreationally take GHB quite often. (also commonly used in date rape cases)

            The same can be said for MDMA, and others

    • purplepatrick 1 hour ago
      Perhaps it has to do with the fact that Germany has a written legal code. This could mean that punishments are more strictly classified than under a, say, precedence-based common law system. Changing the classification could move these kinds of crimes into harsher punishment bands.
      • andrewflnr 1 hour ago
        The law being written does not prevent changing it[0]. Someone changed the written law once to add these weapon-specific provisions, they can do it again. And unless the optimal provisions for date rape drugs are identical to those for weapons, they probably should do it again.

        [0] It might actually be easier to change a properly written law. I hate our stupid precedent-based system in the US.

    • wongarsu 2 hours ago
      I wasn't able to find any information on how exactly that reclassification is happening. Everyone just quotes that one sentence by the Federal Minister of the Interior that they are doing it.

      My best guess is that they don't see a chance to get a law to this effect passed (see also the note about the other related bill being postponed), so they are taking some measure that's in the existing jurisdiction of the ministry. That might be the ministry passing regulations to this effect, or the federal police trying to declare date rape drugs as illegal weapons

    • neetle 1 hour ago
      They fall into the same fuzzy area as chemical weapons imo. They have a non-standard form factor, sure, but they’re still primarily intended to harm people
    • kachapopopow 2 hours ago
      [flagged]
  • david38 1 hour ago
    Seems reasonable, but maybe not exactly a weapon. It is used to subdue someone, but not as a threat. Should be a parallel class.

    And while the intended assault is a sexual assault, a date rape drug still incapacitates you, which easily classifies as kidnapping, unlawful detainment, etc.

    • eqvinox 52 minutes ago
      A stick of dynamite probably counts as a weapon too (I would think?), in a legal sense. I'd say it's a reasonable perspective for the legalese.

      Also, cars have been considered weapons in some cases.

  • s5300 1 hour ago
    [dead]
  • NedF 55 minutes ago
    [flagged]
  • tonyhart7 1 hour ago
    wtf "date rape drugs" mean????

    didn't just they need to make the case under a "rape" classification????

    • ffsm8 18 minutes ago
      They explicitly wanted to make the crime be of the same severity as murder.

      Germany is kinda woke central, lots of pure Monkas decisions being done here, daily.

      To be clear, it already is being treated as rape. And punishments - if proven (which is hard) - are already severe, just not as severe as murder.