Red Alert 2 in web browser

(chronodivide.com)

238 points | by nsoonhui 4 hours ago

19 comments

  • evanjrowley 2 hours ago
    1. The source code for Red Alert 2 is rumored to be lost a very long time ago[0], so the fact that the Chrono Divide team was able to achieve this is quite amazing.

    2. The Mental Omega mod project[1] is going strong, so RA2 is still worth playing today. Hopefully it will work in this browser-based version.

    [0] https://forums.revora.net/topic/107344-red-alert-2-engine-so...

    [1] https://mentalomega.com/

    • CursedSilicon 1 minute ago
      Mental Omega is rumoured to have the source code (and all tooling for the game) which is why their mod is so all encompassing beyond any reasonable limits of what the TS/RA2 engine is capable of
    • s_dev 2 hours ago
      Shame because EA released the source code for most of the other C&C games: https://github.com/electronicarts/

      So if they had it they'd would have almost certainly included RA2 in that as well.

    • Rover222 1 hour ago
      How the hell could they LOSE the source code to that game? All copies of it.

      Not arguing with you, just saying if that's true, it's insane.

      • dleslie 58 minutes ago
        Video Game asset and source control retention was _terrible_. Hell, it's still terrible.

        Prior to ~2010 we were simply deleting source code and assets for finished projects; either because they weren't owned by the developer due to a publishing deal, or because the developers didn't want to reuse their garbage code. Same follows for assets, often they were owned by the publisher and not the developer, but if the developer did happen to own them they'd rarely see reuse in future projects. And publishers didn't catch on to the value of data retention until remakes started to make serious money.

        • Rover222 53 minutes ago
          Makes sense I guess, but still seems absurd.
      • deaddodo 18 minutes ago
        Nobody said every copy was lost, they said the copies in whatever repository Westwood handed over to EA were lost. There might still be a copy on one of the individuals involved in development's machines/backups/etc.
      • BergAndCo 11 minutes ago
        It was an era where Team Foundation Server was just oops corrupting entire codebases
      • caycep 57 minutes ago
        companies shut down and lose stuff I guess. Icewind Dale 2 another example
  • warpspin 2 hours ago
    I loved Red Alert 2 so much at release. Always was the pinnacle of (single player) RTS for me. The over-the-top characters, the cheesy story, the terrain interactions...

    Everything afterwards felt lame and was geared too much towards multiplayer balance, which does not interest me the least.

    • teeray 2 hours ago
      > The over-the-top characters, the cheesy story

      I love that they don't take themselves too seriously in this series. RA3 had some hilarious cutscenes with characters barely holding it together (the Soviet Premier was an underrated Tim Curry role IMO).

      • Xelbair 1 hour ago
        "I'm escaping to the one place that hasn't been corrupted by capitalism,

        barely holds laughter back and takes a break

        SPACE!"

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1Sq1Nr58hM

        • philistine 1 hour ago
          He looked up! It's vital to mention that in this moment, renowned character actor Tim Curry, to highlight the fact that he was going to space, chose to look up!
        • ceejayoz 1 hour ago
          I wish there was a behind-the-scenes of this.
      • tomaskafka 1 hour ago
        Absolutely! I don't have time to play a RTS campaign, but I watched the RA3 story cutscenes and they are the top of the genre.
    • ecshafer 2 hours ago
      Starcraft becoming uber popular in Korea I think really hurt the RTS genre. I did play RTS games online when I was younger. But I think you're right, Everything went from lets make a fun game with a cool campaign, to lets make an Esport. Company of Heroes 1 to 3, Dawn of War 1 to 2, Age of Empires 1,2,3 vs 4. You can really see this.
      • emaro 1 hour ago
        I think the campaigns of StarCraft II are amazing (never played Broodwar unfortunately). However I kinda agree that StarCraft's success hurt the RTS genre, because it's just so freaking good. 15 years since release and there are still tournaments played, it's fun to watch and projects like Stormgate have a really hard time, because SC2 is the bar and it's super difficult to reach. In terms of unit legibility, responsiveness, balance, etc. The bad thing is, it's not an approachable game at all, it mainly is interesting in the competitive/eSport scene.

        If I watch YT videos a la "New RTS games 2025/2026" there are very interesting projects which give me hope that SC2 is not the end of RTS games.

        • ecshafer 1 hour ago
          A lot of the new RTS games I think just end up trying to be StarCraft but not. Grey Goo for example was one that came out a few years ago and it was just Starcraft with a new skin. I am not saying Starcraft is a bad game, its a fantastic game (though I do prefer Warcraft). But it kind of sucks the air out of the genre.

          Starcraft and Starcraft II, and Warcraft I,II,III had great campaigns. So it is kind of ironic that a lot of the games copying them cut the campaigns for the esports focus.

          • Jach 43 minutes ago
            I think you're stretching your point too far if you think Grey Goo was just a SC clone... Grey Goo is clearly in the the C&C branch of RTS more than the StarCraft branch, and of course made by Petroglyph. It's macro-heavy base-building, not micro-heavy, even as the Goo, it doesn't play the same as SC at all. It's also more than a few years old now (10)... On release the focus was the campaign, it didn't even release with replay or observer mode for multiplayer.

            Tempest Rising is a newer RTS (this year) that's also in the C&C style, its highlight is the campaign. (Multiplayer I think is basically in the go-to-discord phase already.) The real problem is that RTS is just an unpopular genre, whether it's taking design inspiration from the C&C branch or the SC branch.

          • Tade0 1 hour ago
            The first StarCraft was Blizzard North at its peak. I recall how difficult it was to win just sending all your troops towards the enemy, because every unit had a comparatively cheap counter.

            It was particularly visible in how, if you edited the map so that every pile of resources was 50k, so essentially endless, you'd arrive at a stalemate.

            • deaddodo 2 minutes ago
              > It was particularly visible in how, if you edited the map so that every pile of resources was 50k, so essentially endless, you'd arrive at a stalemate.

              Given (effectively) unlimited resources within base distance, Zerg undoubtedly have a fairly substantial advantage and will probably win. Assuming comparable player skills, of course.

              Their remax time is 1/3-1/4 that of Protoss/Terran, they can tech-switch near instantaneously, and they have some of the most powerful endgame meta. This was true for SC1 and Brood War, and it's even more true for current SC2.

            • AntiRush 32 minutes ago
              StarCraft was actually built by Blizzard Entertainment (formerly Silicon and Synapse), Blizzard North (Condor) were the team behind Diablo and Diablo 2.
          • skocznymroczny 1 hour ago
            If you think Grey Goo for just Starcraft with a new skin, check out Stormgate. They went so far to replicate almost all UI elements and put them in similar spots. With even things like the top ability bar which resembles Spear of Adun/coop commander interfaces in SC2.
      • iamacyborg 1 hour ago
        DoW 2 is great, DoW 3 on the other hand…
        • ecshafer 1 hour ago
          I liked base buildings. DoW 2 was a good game, but the lack of base building was a let down.
          • iamacyborg 1 hour ago
            Yeah I can see that, I always felt like 2 captured the feel of the factions a bit more than the first did.
    • jayd16 1 hour ago
      There's a lot of things going against the RTS genre.

      They're technically challenging to make and creatively hard to balance.

      The public doesn't want to pay $60 upfront for a campaign when fun freemium games exist.

      The UX does not work well on controller so a huge amount of console players will be out of reach.

      Games tend to be quite long and because it's not team play matchmaking matters a lot. This push multiplayer into being highly competitive and not pushes out the casual players.

      Seems like Clash Royale likes are the best we've come up with to modernize the genre but of course its very different.

    • nkrisc 1 hour ago
      RA2 was loads of fun played with a friend over LAN against many computer opponents.

      We’d start the game up in one computer, then pop the CD out and start it up in the next one, and so on.

      • OptionOfT 32 minutes ago
        Doesn't RA2 check serials over network?

        I do remember having to install IPX to play over LAN.

  • RankingMember 2 hours ago
    It'd be cool if there was a similar site but using OpenRA to avoid the need for local assets.
  • pjmlp 3 hours ago
    > for good performance, Firefox should be avoided

    Oh well.

    Then again, the demo is only usable for those with existing assets.

    • nottorp 2 hours ago
      > for good performance, Firefox should be avoided

      Can't, for privacy reasons.

    • dsnr 1 hour ago
      I wonder what’s wrong with Firefox? What is the bottleneck? The JavaScript engine? I’m guessing the thing is compiled to wasm anyway.
      • voxic11 1 hour ago
        The bottleneck is webgl. I'm not sure why exactly but firefox is pretty well known to have significantly worse webgl performance than can be achieved with chrome.
        • lukan 1 hour ago
          "I'm not sure why exactly"

          I would guess because the GPU world is messy and full of broken drivers full of hacks and workarounds, so it is rather a miracle that FF works so good, with the few engineers they have left.

          (If you are on a chrome based browser, open chrome://gpu to get a glimpse into the work they have been doing just for your GPU and plattform)

          • pjmlp 46 minutes ago
            Which is why sadly Web 3D never took off beyond ecommerce and visualisation tooling, with game studios rather focusing on streaming.

            While on native games the engine can workaround the driver issues, Web 3D APIs are at the mercy of the browser sandbox, where studios don't have access to possible workarounds due to lack of feedback on API performance.

        • Aeolun 1 hour ago
          It’s RA2. If we could run it on a P2, then surely we can run it in a modern browser even on pure CPU?
          • dsnr 1 hour ago
            Exactly what I was thinking.

            Minimum specs: Memory: 4GB (8GB recommended)

            The original ran on 128 MB or even less.

          • pjmlp 45 minutes ago
            Probably even with pure software rendering in WebAssembly, most likely.
  • OptionOfT 31 minutes ago
    I wonder if this is a complete rewrite.

    When you have a large ship, like the Aircraft Carrier or Dreadnaught, you'll notice that its rotation is much smoother than in the original game.

  • bennyp101 2 hours ago
    How does OpenRA[0] do it? Is it just a X has expired thing?

    Edit: Oh maybe you do have to have the assets now? I swear last time I used it, it was all online :/

    [0] https://www.openra.net

    • jsk2600 2 hours ago
      OpenRA does not distribute game assets, but they can be downloaded from OpenRA launcher.
    • catapart 2 hours ago
      Since you broached the topic, I've got an open curiosity about projects like that: if I manufactured entirely new assets, completely independently from the source game (possibly not even matching the source; like a different "skin" or "theme"), and then used those assets in a "clone" (in all but assets) of the source game, would that run afoul of IP law? I'm aware that anything can be litigated, but is there some quirk of IP protection for that kind of thing, or would I be able to use the cloned source with completely new assets without really infringing on anything? Does the cloned (re-coded? recomposed? clean-roomed?) source cause issues or create some kind of legal link from the original assets to the unrelated ones?

      Again, just idle curiosity. No actual intentions here, so just wondering if anyone has some deeper knowledge on the subject.

      • coldpie 2 hours ago
        Game mechanics are not considered copyrightable[1]. If you had a clean room implementation with your own significantly different assets, it would be allowed.

        However, the exact definitions of "significantly different" and "assets" is where things start to get fuzzy. While you could definitely make a very similar RTS game, exactly how similar can you get? EA doesn't own "military-themed RTS", but they probably do own "Soviets vs Allies with about 5 different unit types, air transports, and tesla coils." Getting even more fuzzy, are unit abilities considered assets, or game mechanics? It'd have to be worked out in court.

        My gut feeling is these clone engines would probably lose in court. I think the specific expression of the general game mechanics being cloned here probably would constitute infringement. But there isn't much upside to the IP owners to pursue enthusiastic hobbyists cloning a 20+ year old game in a non-commercial way, so they let it slide.

        [1] "Although Amusement World admitted that they appropriated Atari's idea, the court determined that this was not prohibited, because copyright only protects the specific expression of an idea, not the idea itself." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari,_Inc._v._Amusement_World...

        • philistine 1 hour ago
          I'm sure if EA could undo their release of Red Alert and C&C as open-source, they would.

          OpenRA simply downloads a copy that it loads for the purpose of assets, but the engine is completely new, and it is very different from the orignal Red Alert. At this point, I don't think a single unit acts exactly the way it did in the original game. It's endlessly being rebalanced.

      • afavour 2 hours ago
        IIRC if you make entirely new assets you're good to go. OpenTTD (Open source version of Transport Tycoon Deluxe) has its own custom made assets, but can also be used with the original if you own them.

        https://www.openttd.org

        Not sure it's ever been proven definitively in court, though. And if you "made" custom assets that were exactly like the original ones only with a 1px color difference or something I'm sure you'd fall foul of it. What counts as different "enough" is always debatable.

        • catapart 1 hour ago
          Oh, awesome! Yeah, this is a great example of something that I would have guessed would kind of be "over the line" being that it looks similar enough to be an issue. I'm glad it's not, though! But, either way, it's a perfect practical example of what I was wondering about, so thanks!
        • mikepurvis 2 hours ago
          It would probably be the usual clean room reverse engineering rules: one guy describes the assets to be cloned, and then another guy who has never seen the originals uses that documentation to create the replacements.

          Once you've seen the originals, you're contaminated and no longer suitable for the role of doing the replacement work.

      • wwfn 2 hours ago
        https://freedoom.github.io/ does that for the still proprietary DOOM assets. Though the DOOM engine itself is open source, so a slight different situation than Command and Conquer.
  • khoury 3 hours ago
    Can't start the game in the browser without a local executable of the game?
    • voxic11 3 hours ago
      Copyright, you have to provide all the copyrighted material yourself so that they can't be sued for distributing it.
      • netsharc 56 minutes ago
        Man, what a waste of resources. It'd be funny if the client side just did a hash of the "uploaded" files, told the server the hash, and then the server can compare the hash and use the server copy of the assets, to save bandwidth. But as "What colour are your bits" (1) say, that'd still probably not be legal.

        Oops, it's a browser based game, you still need the assets on the client side, i.e. in your local memory... never mind

        (1) https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/23

    • RankingMember 2 hours ago
      yeah, bit of a buzzkill. What's the point of being able to launch from a web browser if you've gotta go dig up the game anyways?
      • Aurornis 1 hour ago
        The point is they don’t get sued for distributing game assets they don’t own.

        If they could distribute them, they would.

        • YcYc10 1 hour ago
          But what is the point of the project?
          • voxic11 1 hour ago
            It patches the game with a modernized UX, implements a new client-server multiplayer networking model, allows you to play the game on systems which don't support it like macOS, and adds better support for modding. Overall it just updates the experience to meet modern gaming expectations.

            They have a whole section of their website where they list the features. https://chronodivide.com/#features

      • tgv 2 hours ago
        Now you can run it on more platforms.
      • nonethewiser 2 hours ago
        Point taken, but there is an answer to your questions. Cross platform compatibility
    • brovonov 3 hours ago
      Yes, because they don't own the assets.
    • shortrounddev2 3 hours ago
      It's a copyright thing
      • torginus 3 hours ago
        They really should've added the demo files.
  • bbarnett 2 hours ago
    Neat project.

    If looking for gameplay like this, OpenRA does play a few games without original game assets. I don't think RA2 though.

  • Zardoz84 15 minutes ago
    Kirov reporting
  • wahnfrieden 36 minutes ago
    This game was a big part of my childhood. I ran a somewhat popular modding site for it, "RA2 Factory" (as well as "Tiberian Sun Factory"). I spent more time honing my dev skills building these sites as well as modding editor tools than I did actually playing with any mods though.

    I even visited their studios in LA during a cross-country Amtrak trip. They were very kind, especially the community manager (whose name escapes me). I was given a tour and allowed to play Yuri's Revenge before its release. They gave me a Dune 2 box and C&C poster which I still have somewhere.

  • doublerabbit 2 hours ago
    I will throw out that if anyone does want to play RA2/YR multiplayer you can for free here: https://cncnet.org/red-alert-2
  • Telaneo 2 hours ago
    Yes! This'll be fun to show some friends who are fans.
  • stego-tech 2 hours ago
    Incoming HN hug.

    Love it, can’t wait to poke at it from home later.

  • tinyhouse 1 hour ago
    Where can I find / buy a local executable of the game?
  • lostmsu 53 minutes ago
    How does it work?
  • lostmsu 54 minutes ago
    Damn this is much better than playing on actual Windows desktop. It is positively awesome!

    Yuri's Revenge when?

    Also, if that's a non-profit fan project, why is the source code not available?

  • Finnucane 1 hour ago
    Click on web site, see unreadable light-grey-on-white text, say, fuck that and leave.
  • Andrew-Tate 1 hour ago
    [dead]
  • Joshua-Peter 1 hour ago
    [flagged]